Interview with Mr. Henry Bradby
April 16, 2003
Interviewed by Sandra M. Lowe
Mr.Bradby went to Gravel Hill School. It was on two floors of a building that also acted as the Odd Fellow’s Hall.
Q: We’ll start off first of all by allowing Mr. Bradby to just talk on his own about any of his school histories or anything about the county schools that he recalls at this time.
A: Thank you very much. I’m so grateful to be given the opportunity to share with you whatever memories that we have. I was born in Isle of Wight County November 1923. The exact date was the 26th. I went to school in the Rushmere community. It was named after the church Gravel Hill School. It had 2 rooms—1 up and 1 down. It was never designed for a school building because it was an Odd Fellows Hall. And of course, we went there up to the 7th grade and we then went on to Isle of Wight County Training School. I never rode a public school bus. My father paid the local bus driver who owned the bus for me and my older sister 75 cents per week and that was, of course, for us to go to Isle of Wight Training School. We had 7 grades at the Gravel Hill School that we went to. We had another school that was built by the county. The citizens of the area purchased the property and the county provided the school building, known as Lawnes. That all happened after I left Gravel Hill School and went on to Isle of Wight Training School. We didn’t have but 11 grades at Isle of Wight Training School then and that was when we finished Isle of Wight Training School in 11th grade. The knowledge I have of what we experienced in school then may be rather unbelievable, but it’s a fact. I was told before the time of the one-room schools that those schools didn’t have any names. They were just called the colored children’s schools and they adopted or maybe were given the name by the citizens of the community from the nearest church and that was the case in a lot of the one-room schools and two-room schools in the county. For instance, the school we are looking at that’s going to, hopefully, one day be moved to the museum was named after a church nearby, Christian Home. There was one named after the church called Muddy Cross, and the list goes on. History is always something that we’ve admired and enjoyed talking about. I was told by my father before he passed away that schoolteachers’ salary then was $35.00 per month. Of course, you had to be a good teacher to get that. I was told by my mother and father when they were in school you didn’t have to have a college degree to teach school. If you finished high school that qualified you for teaching grammar school. I can say this without hesitation, even though looking back in the yesteryears I enjoyed it. I always like to go to school. Then you had to learn all you could learn and prove to the teacher that you had learned it. Because then, not like it is now, you could be disciplined for not getting what they called then your lesson. You had to learn to spell, to read, to do then what they now call mathematics, algebra, trigonometry and had to do your arithmetic. I used to know all the times tables. I can’t say that I know that now because years have taken its toll by now. You had to do it from memory they called it then by heart. The things that you maybe learned while you were there in school. I was a mischievous student. I was, maybe, too adventurous. Then the teacher could whip you. But you know what I never forgot and you’d remember it. I’ve said it quite often and still say it, “I never got a whipping that I didn’t deserve.” And maybe some shows up on me now. I’d like to do things that maybe hadn’t been done before. I say that to say this, because in 1975 I ran for the Board of Supervisors here in Isle of Wight County and was successful at being elected. I was the first Black in Isle of Wight County to be elected to public office. There were several reasons I wanted to do what I did. Because of the fact that I used to look at the school conditions, and mind you when I went to what we thought was high school I found out later down the road that it was a training school. That was the name. I was at a class reunion meeting some time ago and I made that statement and I was criticized, but I still stand by it because I never went to high school. I went to Isle of Wight Training School. Now maybe you can convince me that I did go to high school, but I haven’t been convinced of that yet. But it was enjoyable. I’m experiencing some things now maybe that I never thought I’d ever experience. After being elected to the governing body of the county I’ve been able to meet people that I never dreamed of ever meeting. I’ve been able to go places that I’ve never dreamed of ever going. I’ve been to county conferences from Seattle, Washington to Miami, Florida and from the State of Maryland to the State of California. I’ve been to several different conferences and met people. I was able to meet Ronald Reagan at one of those conferences in Baltimore and Jimmy Carter. I met with him at county conferences. These were called __________ conferences, ___________ of counties, and I enjoyed it all. I can say without hesitation it all started in those one- and two-room schools in Isle of Wight County. See we had a class in school then, you don’t hear talk of much of now. The first year you went to school they called it the primer. You don’t hear that word much now. But you went through the primer and when you finished the primer you went to what was called first grade, and then on up through the seventh. It was a great experience. I don’t mind sharing with nobody what I experienced during that time. I’m still experiencing, maybe some things that I never dreamed I’d be able to experience. I’ve seen the county budget go from 16 million to approximately 65 million now. I’ve seen the population in the county go from 12,000 to what’s now maybe over 30,000. And it’s been enjoyable. I reckon that’s why I ________________ ‘cause I always loved something adventurous and getting involved in something. And some things you get involved in are really not acceptable ____________ because I’m a member of the committee that’s in the process of moving this one-room school from the Christian Home Area to the town of Smithfield. If anybody had told me back in those early days that one day you’ll see what they called a colored school on the main street in Smithfield I would’ve said, “Well, something wrong with your head, that’s not going to happen.” But now we are, hopefully, getting ready to experience that coming in reality. I just hope the Good Lord will keep me living long enough to see it happen. I enjoyed talking with you. Thank you very much.
Q: Now, how many sis-, did you have any sisters and brothers?
A: I have two sisters, no brothers.
Q: Do you know what schools they attended? Did they go to Gravel Hill?
A: My oldest sister, she was older than me, and she went to the same school I went to.
Q: Gravel Hill?
A: Gravel Hill School and from there to Isle Wight Training School.
Q: When you were at Gravel Hill, how many teachers were there?
A: Two. One room up and one room down. ____________________
Q: So there were just the two classrooms?
A: That’s it. That was it.
Q: Was there a cloakroom? Where did you hang your coats?
A: They had a closet mainly a place they stored wood for a potbelly heater and if you could find room enough in it to hang your coat you could do it. (Laughs)
Q: Do you recall who some of the teachers were?
A: Mrs. Ellis whose husband pastored Hill Street Church ____________ and Clara Moore who was before Ellis. She was my first teacher. Ellis followed her. And we had Clarice Pretlow; I think came along or maybe, let me see. We had another teacher called Edna Brown. She lived in Smithfield along with Mrs. Ellis and they would ride together. Mrs. Ellis and Mrs. Little were my teachers all the way. Mrs. Little taught me from primer to up about third or fourth grade and Mrs. Ellis completed fifth through the seventh grade.
Q: Do you know of any of the history of your school?
A: Well, it was the Odd Fellows Hall even before the Odd Fellows became organized this was, from what I understand maybe a seafood area down by the river. And they had an organization called the fish men. They were the ones that built that building there to begin with and, of course, I don’t know what happened to them. They folded and the Potts brothers became organized and they took the same building and then this is one room now and that one room was not sufficient for the amount of children that was in that community, and they put another story on top of that one room which made it two-story.
Q: What dates do you think that would have started with the time that you’re talking about?
A: I’m going to guess at that. I was born in ’23, I went to school when I became 6 years old, and I would take a guess between 23 and 25 when that building came into existence. My mother told me she went to school out here, but she went in the church. She went to school in the church long before they put this one room this building right beside the church.
Q: When you went to school, how did you get to and from school?
A: We walked. That was the only way we could get there.
Q: And how far was that?
A: About 2 miles.
Q: One way?
A: Um huh.
Q: Do you recall any experiences from your walking days?
A: Well, the whites rode school buses and they would pass us walking the road in the school buses and they would yell all kinds of racial slurs. I wouldn’t even bother about talking about it. I’ll never forget it, enough of that.
Q: Were there many other children that walked to school with you?
A: Oh yeah, everybody in the community. Rushmere
Q: Do you remember some of the people that walked on the path with you?
A: Oh, sure. I remember my cousin, Miles, another friend of mine, Marvin Wilson, James Wells and, of course, my sister Gladys, another young girl name Ruth Wilson. It would hard for me to remember all because everybody went to the same school. We all went to the same school.
Q: A lot of them came from the same direction?
A: Oh yeah. Well, see the church I would say Gravel Hill School was kind of centrally located in the community and they’d be coming from all directions—up the road, down the road.
Q: Did you have any jobs that you had to do at home before going to school or after you returned?
A: Oh, sure. See then you didn’t have any indoor plumbing. We didn’t have central heat and my job at home was to get wood, and of course, there had to be some water and that kind of thing. And I would bring in water and get the wood. That was some of my chores when I was young at home.
Q: Did you have many chores to do at school?
A: Well, we didn’t have, I repeat again. We didn’t have central heat and what the teacher would do is ask us to go out in the woods to get wood to have for the next morning classes to supply the school with heat. That’s how and everybody didn’t do it the same day. The teacher always maybe appointed two young men or two ladies to go in the woods and get wood that particular day. I didn’t go every day, but when my time came I had to go get the wood.
Q: What do you recall about the way the school day started?
A: Well one thing I admired. I’ll never forget that. We had devotion. We either recited a bible verse and prayer was allowed in school then. We had Morning Prayer and oft times a minister of the community or minister of the church would come and conduct the devotion. I’ll never forget that. That’s always been something that stays with my thinking. Matter of fact, I value to a great degree that that took place. It had a lot to do with molding my life.
Q: Was the school day started with what subjects do you recall?
A: Well, we had reading, arithmetic and geography then they called it. They don’t know that word now (laughs). That was a subject at that time.
Q: _________________
A: Uh huh
Q: You were answering some of the questions about the subjects you had and any textbooks you remember.
A: That’s difficult. Ummmm The name of some of them?
Q: Do you remember any of them or anything about them? If not we’ll move on.
A: We had then what was known as the Primer. And there was a book that I’ll never forget we had during the primer years. It was called Baby Ray. Now it’s been a long time. I often wonder if there is an existing copy anywhere. (Laughs)
Q: I haven’t heard of that one.
A: I know you haven’t. (Laughs) That was the primer book. That book was named Baby Ray.
Q: Baby Ray?
A: I don’t know whether anybody ever…I remember it though. That was the first book I can remember going to school with.
Q: How long was the school day?
A: Ummm. About 9 to 3, I would think.
Q: Did your school year run straight through or did you take breaks for farming or anything?
A: Oh yeah, we started…I was not in a farming area. School would start mainly around September and would last until May.
Q: What can you recall about the lunch period?
A: They had a hand bell then. They didn’t have all this high tech stuff we got now. And the teacher would ring the bell and that was the indication or sign that it was lunchtime. And you brought lunch from home. There was no cafeteria or no prepared lunches. You’d bring a sandwich or whatever from home and you were then given the opportunity to go ahead and eat your lunch. We had again what was called a lunch bucket, (laughs) a lunch pail.
Q: Anything else?
A: No. We had the water that was in the bucket and there was a dipper.
Q: Where did the water come from?
A: The water came from the nearest Store about a couple hundred yards up the road. We’d go up there and get a bucket of water and bring it back to the school. There was a dipper in the bucket. The teacher always made it a point that we had our own drinking cup or glass so we wouldn’t have drink out of the same dipper.
Q: There was no pump at the school?
A: Oh no, not at Gravel Hill School. When they built us another school up the road, Lawnes School, they had a pump there and a well.
Q: You said the rest rooms were?
A: Outside Johnny. Outside Johnny, that’s exactly right.
Q: What can you tell us about recess?
A: Recess was determined just like, ahh. Maybe recess and lunch hour were combined. We had time to eat lunch and recess was all at the same time.
Q: How would you describe the classrooms at Gravel Hill?
A: Well, at Gravel Hill it was just one room and the heater was a pot-bellied heater that sat in the middle of the classroom. It wasn’t up against the wall, it was right in the middle. The chimney went directly through the center of the classroom. Upstairs and down the same chimney served for both rooms.
Q: What else was in the room?
A: Nothing but the desks and the student desks were in there.
Q: Any teaching materials on the walls?
A: Well teaching …we had crayons then. We would maybe have alphabets posted up beside the walls and if you were good at painting the teacher would post your picture or photograph, not photograph, but your painting on the wall, if it were exceptionally good. It had to be wall material to get on the wall.
Q: That was a reward in itself getting it posted?
A: Oh yeah, if you got your painting on the wall you had done exceptionally well, a good job.
Q: The teacher’s desk and the students’ desk?
A: The teacher had a different desk because nobody sat at her desk but her. Student desks were double a lot of them, not all of them. Most of them were double desks and they were designed for two students, but in most cases three because there were so many students for that school. Three would sit at a desk designed for two.
Q: You were faced with some over crowding?
A: Oh, no question. You know, back in those days even grown men were going to school because some of them stayed in school and didn’t learn like the teachers thought they should learn and they stayed in there until they got so large the teacher told them don’t come back next year. (Laughs) That’s how it was done. It’s different now.
Q: Once you get that size you would get lost?
A: Yes
Q: You had a chalkboard, I’m sure?
A: Oh yeah.
Q: Any other school supplies that you remember?
A: Huh?
Q: Were there any other school supplies in the room or that you think were provided by the county or the community?
A: Very little, ahh maybe the county provided but we called them blackboards then. Maybe crayon or eraser. That was about all the county really provided. You had to buy your own books and most time, if they were family the books were passed down from one student to the other. In our family if we find somebody that was finishing the class that you were going into if they got the books we passed down that book from that family of that student to give to your child. That’s the way we handled it.
Q: How would you describe the lighting situation in those rooms?
A: Well, the windows, the school that I went to wasn’t actually like the one-room school that was in existence. We had a lot of windows on one side of the one-room school that was designed by, I believe Rosenwald—the gentleman that designed those one-room schools…
Q: You mean Rosenwald?
A: Yeah, We had very few windows in our school. We had some, but nothing like they had in the one-room schools then.
Q: What can you tell us about discipline and punishment?
A: (Laughs) now that’s a good one. Then the teachers could whip you. And as I stated a few minutes ago I never got a whipping I didn’t deserve. I know that. And it was mandatory that you get one because then you got your lesson. You had to get you r lesson. If you didn’t the teacher would punish you for it. I wasn’t always obedient to that but I learned later on to be. This remembers real life to be honest with you. When you didn’t do what you were supposed to do the teacher would, in common words, whip you. And I used to get them, there’s no need to tell you I didn’t get some. (Laughs)
Q: Are there any other experiences that you want to add?
A: Well, It’s hard for me to quote at this time any direct experience, but what you learned, you didn’t forget. I learned my timetables. I don’t know if I can do that now or not, but I learned from 1 to 12. I don’t say I can do it now. Numbers I’ve always (Side one of tape ended)
Q: Are there any negative impressions that you have from those days regarding the school, the teachers, and /or the students?
A: The only concern that I have and maybe we can deal with it so much different from what we could then. That is the whites had so much better. I would say better opportunities for getting better education than the then-called colored children. That was one of the reasons I became interested in the governing body of this county. That was to improve the educational facilities that we are now enjoying. Those were the concerns that I had then. Can’t forget my oldest daughter was in the era of integration at the school. She went to Smithfield High School and they had wooden floors there then. The question came up “must we renovate this school or must we build a new school?” And my real intention was not to renovate the old Smithfield High School. We must go somewhere and build a school where we’ll have more room, more modern facilities and area of expansion. The night we voted to build the new Smithfield High School it was a 2/3 vote and maybe I was that third vote that they needed to build Smithfield High School where it is today. I pass there quite often now and look over there and say, “wonder would that school have been there if I hadn’t been a member of the governing body” because two of the board members did not want to supply the finances to build that new school. They wanted to renovate the old school. I knew that would never meet the needs of our high school needs in the county. There was little or no room for expansion on a busy city street running in the middle of the school those are some of the things that would always settle in my mind.
Q: Any other positive impressions? That was one. Anything positive?
A: The positive thing was when you began to see our school facilities improve. Mind you, when I went to school at Isle of Wight Training School, there was only one typewriter in the school and the principal had that. We never took typing classes. We had no typewriters to take classes on.
Q: What about positive impressions from the elementary school?
A: Oh, from the elementary school. Well, one of the things I’ve always felt proud about that is it was mandatory that you get your lesson. I like that, Miss Lowe. The positive fact was you had to get your lesson.
Q: You mentioned in your autobiographical material at the beginning so you’ve made your point of your life. Are there any other things you would like to tell us about you and your contributions, family points, anything at all?
A: Well, yes, some of the things we feel sort of proud of and that was I’d always try to instill into my children’s thinking the importance of an education. And my oldest daughter about 3 years ago, 2 years got her PhD from William & Mary. That was one of the things that I always value. That couldn’t have happened 20 years ago. She would never have gotten a PhD from William & Mary. (Chuckles)
Q: Are there any other early childhood memories that you recall about growing up that you have not told us or that you want to elaborate on? Last Question.
A: My childhood memories in growing up having been near to the river that was learning how to swim. I did learn that. Funny thing about that once you learn it, you never forget it. (Laughs) Another memory that I’ve always had in high esteem. Not saying I know I could do it now, but for a long time I could. Those are some of the enjoyable things growing up, as a child was to play around the James River.
Q: Do you have anything else to add? I keep saying this is the last question.
A: Well, I would think… You know my father was a minister and being reared up in a minister’s home church was an area of great importance to me. I reckon the first place that I recognize growing up maybe when I went to church. My mother would carry me to church every time the church door opened, I think. (Laughs) I was there. And that becomes a part of your life when that happens. Individuals who have a love for the church. I’ve always said it most likely be pretty successful in life. Church has a lot to do with the molding and shaping your life. I’ve enjoyed saying what we said and we certainly look forward to seeing it.
Q: Thank you very much, Mr. Bradby. We appreciate your coming and helping us out today.
A: All right. No problem.