Q: Good morning, my name is Otelia Crawley-Hendricks, and I’m a member of the Isle of Wight County Oral History Committee and this morning I’m here to interview a Mr. Huntington Brown. Mr. Brown, would you care to share about your name and family connections.
A: My name in Huntington A. Brown and my family is...all my family dead, but I got to be around my granddaddy and grandmother and was raised by Grace Thomas. All my family is deceased.
Q: What area of Isle of Wight County did you grow up in?
A: Carrollton.
Q: From the age of?
A: I wasn’t 6 months old when I left, and came back. I think I was about 6 years old, from then until I was 13.
Q: Did you have any sisters or brothers?
A: I got 3 sisters and Barbara was supposed grandfather, heard. Sandra and Gerald are dead.
Q: Now tell us what elementary school did you attend?
A: Carrollton Elementary School.
Q: About what grade?
A: I went from beginner; I went to first grade, Miss Carrie Jordan. Then…
Q: Did you go to the 2nd grade at Carrollton?
A: Yeah! I went all the way to the 7th.
Q: All the way to the 7th grade at Carrollton?
A: I’m trying to think. I was with Ms. Carrie for 3 years or 4 years or something. Then I went with Mrs. White until I left and went to high school.
Q: They were your two teachers?
A: Yes!
Q: Well how many classrooms were in Carrolton School?
A: Two.
Q: How were the grades divided? Did they teach 1-4 or 1-3?
A: I think it was1 through 4 with Ms. Carrie Jordan.
Q: What on one side of the classroom?
A: On the east end was Carrie Jordan and on the west end was Alee White.
Q: So how old were you when you started school?
A: Six.
Q: You were 6 years old?
A: Yeah.
Q: Now what sort of history, do you know anything about Carrollton School? When it was built or why, how it came about to be built? Or was it the first Carrollton School? What do you know anything about it?
A: All I can remember hearing... it was the first...and that one where I lived must have been the second, the one we went to. The first one we were living in that one, my grandfather. Gus Brown moved that across the road.
Q: Okay, so the one that you lived in…?
A: Had to be the first.
Q: And they moved it across the road?
A: And my grandfather bought that and moved that across the road for a house.
Q: How did they move it across the road? How did they get it…..?
A: He moved it, my grandfather, Gus Brown.
Q: What did he use back then back?
A: A mule and a dog and some logs.
Q: Oh! Okay.
A: I was small.
Q: You were small when they did that? Then you lived in the schoolhouse.
A: The ceiling was 12 foot in that old school.
Q: I remember our school days, you coming out of the house, but I didn’t know at that time that that had been an old Carrollton School house that you were living in. So then you lived in part of history. Yeah!
A: Yeah! Right cross the road in Hunter School my grandmother and I used to sit where she could look out the window and sew at the sewing machine. She could see Mr. White’s door. And she could see almost to Ms. Carrie’s door through that window.
Q: Oh through that window? So now how did you get to school?
A: Walk
Q: Walked right cross the road?
A: Walk, right cross the road. From our house to the school was about 150 yards.
Q: So you were one of the lucky ones who did not have to walk a long way to get to school? When you went to school did you have any special jobs that you as a boy had to do once you got to school...pick up wood or help start the fire at the school?
A: Not in Ms. Carrie’s room but I can’t remember what I had to do in Ms. White’s room.
Q: Did you have any specials jobs you had to take care at home before you went to school that morning?
A: Not when I was real small. I might carry some wood.
Q: What about water at your home, did you have to take water inside?
A: No.
Q: How did you get to be such a lucky boy that the only thing you had to do at school was to bring in wood?
A: No, at school you used coal. We used to go out there and get a bucket of coal.
Q: So the boys did this. They didn’t have the girls to go out?
A: A boy or a girl, I can’t remember. There was one girl.
Q: What was her name?
A: Lula Mae.
Q: Luther Mae, what was her last name?
A: She lived down there in Carol Bow’s house. She was staying up here at Tyne’s Corner where you would make a left. Lula Mae Williams, she would go out there and get coals and she used to get wood at home.
Q: Who started the fire?
A: Ms. White, I think or some of the boys who were large enough to start it.
Q: How did your school day start? Think way back, when you were a little boy and you are going to school; tell me how did your school day start? Did the bell ring?
A: Yeah the bell rang. There was a bell for lunchtime.
Q: After you went inside of the school, the classroom, then what did you do next? Did you have devotion or Pledge of Allegiance? Did you do that? Did yawl sing songs?
A: I don’t think that we did that in Ms. Carrie’s room. But when we got in the next room we did.
Q: When you all got in Ms. White’s room?
A: Yeah!
Q: Is there anything in particular that you can remember about the devotions? Was there any particular song that you use to sing? When I sent to Carrollton School we use to sing “My Faith Look’s up to Thee” all the time.
A: I think we use to sing “God Bless America”.
Q: What sort of classes or subjects did Ms. White teach you? I know she taught the 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade? What sort of subjects?
A: Wait a minute Ms. Carrie was 1st, 2nd and 3rd and Ms. White was 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th. Arithmetic, that was hard. English and Spelling were some of the subjects.
Q: Sometime as we talk it might come back to you to some more subjects. How long was your school day? School started at what time?
A: 9 to 3. Recess in the morning, at lunchtime and end at 3 or 3:30 or something like that.
Q: At lunchtime where did you eat lunch?
A: In the schoolyard and you had to bring your lunch.
Q: Do you remember what you might have brought to school for lunch sometime?
A: I use to love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I like slab bacon, sometimes ham and bologna.
Q: I understand there was a store not to far away, were you allowed to...?
A: No. But some of the larger boys would slip away. The nearest store to the school was Juliet Brown’s store, you remember that? Ms. Martin’s store won’t there yet. The Martin’s store was a three-story apartment house an ocean view. And I tore that house down. The worst job I ever had was taking it down. If you go down there and pass there and you look at the store you would see a television antenna sitting on top of the store. That was my hardest job, because I got up the ladder and was scared to come back down. All I could see was a little bit of shore and water. That was how high we were.
Q: So let’s talk about your recess, you mentioned you all had recess. What sort of games did you all do during recess time?
A: We would play ball. Rest of the time, do you remember “Popping The Whip”?
Q: That was a game too?
A: You don’t remember that? That was when all the girls and boys, in a line of about 10-12, would join hands and everybody would start running. The lead would start running and all at once he would stop and swing everybody around to see who could hold on. You could get hurt.
Q: What other games did yawl play during recess?
A: The boys would shot marbles.
Q: Did you play marbles with the girls or did you play marbles with just the boys?
A: With the boys. Some girls like Lula Mae and Pauline would play every now-and- then. One or two girls, I can’t remember, could shot just as good as the boys could. Play half good, they get out there and take your marbles.
Q: What is playing “Half”?
A: That’s when I got about 10 marbles and you got about 10 or 15 marbles. Whoever would win the game would get the marbles. Every time you would beat me, you would take one of my marbles. See, I had a big jar of them.
Q: That sound like a lot of fun?
A: Until they catch you cheating.
Q: I am sure you all did not try to cheat too much?
A: When you played Baltimore, there was a game called Baltimore. You draw a circle on the ground and put marbles in the center. You get on the outside of the circle, put a bunch of marbles in the center, and you shot at a marble. If you hit one hard enough and knock one out you keep on shooting. Once you get all them knocked you can get everyone out there.
Q: How long did the school year last? Did you all go to school for 6 months or 9 months out of the year?
A: Same thing as it is now.
Q: Let’s go back to your classroom. Tell me what did the classroom look like? Were there windows? Did the teachers have any kind of writings or papers up on the walls?
A: Writing on the blackboard. I think there was a blackboard on the south side in Miss Carey’s room. On the west side of Ms. White’s room was a blackboard next to the heater. You could go from Ms. Carey’s room to Ms.White’s room, there was a door opened. But, between the two rooms was sliding doors. They use to have movies. Mr. Roger Black use to show movies. Then they use to have Halloween programs. When they had that the two rooms became one because they would slide the doors back.
Q: Where did Mr. Roger Black get the movies from?
A: I don’t know. But he use to get movies and they use to have him come down and show the movies.
Q: Did Mr. Rogers have any children?
A: He had two boys. One was named after him. He lives in Sandy Mount, right pass-on the east side of Sandy Mount Church and the other one lives in Uzzle town. He had two sons, I don’t know if he had daughters or nothing.
Q: Is Mr. Roger Black still living?
A: He been dead.
Q: What other programs did they have at school? Did you all have May Day activities? Tell me about that.
A: They use to put the pole up. I think they had a group that use to sing sometime. Some nights, but I can’t remember what night.
Q: Did you know a teacher named Mrs. Lucy Porter Blount?
A: Yeah! But I was not there when she came.
Q: Where did you all get your water from to drink?
A: A pump in the front on the north side of the school, about the center of the school. Right in front of the school.
Q: Did you bring water inside to drink when you got thirsty? What did they do? Could you go outside?
A: You had to go to the pump.
Q: Could you go to the pump at anytime or did you have to wait?
A: No, you had to ask. I thing they had a bucket. There were two doors coming in to the school. There was an outside door and then a little spacing between. They would come through that door and come in the school from both ends.
Q: What about windows? Did you all have any windows much at the school?
A: Yeah, the whole front. That’s when we had to clean the windows.
Q: Just the boys, or the boys and the girls?
A: Everybody, both the girls and the boys. I can’t remember no windows being on the east side. Nowhere but in the coat room. There was a window in there.
Q: What about the teachers’ desk? Where was her desk situated?
A: Well, you come in that door, like where this table is right here. In this room, Ms. Cary’s desk was the same distance at her end.
Q: How was the children’s desk situated? Were the backs to the windows or the chairs turned so you could see out of the windows?
A: In Ms. Carrie’s room was facing the east, facing her desk. And in Ms. White’s room, I think we had our backs to her desk. But nobody was facing the windows though. Your desk would be lined up down side the windows.
Q: What were the chalkboards used for? Did the teacher write the homework or did she do the school lessons for that day?
A: Sometimes she wrote it. I think Ms. Carrie’s chalkboard was behind her on the east end behind her desk. I think in Ms. White’s room it was on the south side.
Q: Did the teachers have any learning or teaching aid on her walls, like the ABC’s or numbers?
A: Ms. Carrie use to have ABCs on her wall. She had from 1-100, I think. But I knew my ABCs when I went to school. I knew how to count to 100.
Q: Who taught you your ABCs?
A: My aunt Elsie Edwards, Geraldine Ann, and her daughter, Vanessa Davis. Then when I came back to Virginia. I was back at five. Then my grandmother, Thelma Brown and Grace Thomas taught me.
Q: What sort of lighting did they have in your school? Did they have electricity, oil lamps or did you use the lights from the windows?
A: Electricity. And they had some oil lamps and metal lamps. I remember that because my grandma had a couple of metal lamps, metal lamps would give out just a much light as full watt bulb would.
Q: So if the electricity went out, you all would have those lamps?
A: Yeah we would have something to use for light.
Q: That is quite interesting.
A: I got one of those lamps.
Q: You do, you have one of those lamps?
A: I got a metal lamp. I got to find somebody to fix the lamp. I never found the lady to fix the lamp.
Q: And this is one of the lamps...
A: This is one of the lamps like they used in school...antique sterling silver.
Q: Do you have any other items that use to be used at Carrollton School?
A: No!
Q: Did you have a coatroom?
A: The coatroom in Ms. Carrie’s side was on the southeast corner and Ms. White’s was on the southwest corner.
Q: You know your directions pretty good. Tell me about the disciple, what did they use to discipline the boys and girls?
A: A ruler and sometimes whips.
Q: When you say the ruler, how did they use the ruler?
A: They beat or hit you with it.
Q: How many times?
A: Don’t know, 3 or 4 times, depending on how many times she wanted to.
Q: She did not tell you in advance how many times she was going to hit you?
A: Sometimes Ms. White would.
Q: What other kind of punishment did they use if you were disobedient in the classroom?
A: Made you sit in the corner.
Q: Did you ever have to go sit in the corner?
A: Yeah! Ms. White and I did not get along, no way.
Q: Tell me about some good memories you had during school, about any other student or your teachers or something you were involved in? What good memories do you have?
A: Oh, I was by myself. Papas Babb’s, Cousin L. C. and Allen Lirk use to like picking on me, but a lot of time Captoria Hill______ somebody got after them, they were hurt. Everybody was scared of Captoria. They did not play for chops. Captoria Hill’s mother’s name was Vasta Hill.
Q: Is there anything that was negative about the school days that hurt your feelings or made you feel bad?
A: No, nobody would pick on you but like Ms. White, she was our teacher. Cause I accidentally hit her on her dress with a cornhusk. She caused some kinda mess when that corn hit her on her dress. When I went to school she told it and she and my granddaddy use to get in it.
Q: Any other school experiences you would like to tell us about? How do you feel about your early childhood education? Do you feel it helped you to get a good start off in life, for work?
A: I had a lot of people pushing me. Most of them white people, the lawyer, the doctor, judge, policeman; Sheriff Whitehead when I was growing up. Because they knew I had something to think about...and what I was thinking about might cause me to do anything. So they wanted me to have something to do. Grace, the lady I told I did not have a mother. She said she would be my mother, “You will not want for nothing as long as I live.”
Q: What relationship was grace to you now?
A: None.
Q: But she served as a mother, a substitute for you. And her last name was Gracie…?
A: Her name was Gracie Ashby Lyman Thomas.
Q: She has a long name!
A: See her maiden name was Ashby. Her married named, she was married twice. The first was Lyman, she had one son. She wanted me to sing, have good manners and behavior. As long as you ain’t sassy or hardheaded, anything you want you could get it.
Q: Tell us something else briefly about you? Are you married single or divorced? Do you have children? That’s up to you if you wish to share that with us...
Q: Thank you for going down memory lane and sharing your school days with the oral history committee of Isle of Wight County.