Q. That building here was it owned by the Saw Mill?
A. The Saw Mill built it for the Black People after the school got too small. We couldn’t go to school all day because the office that they had was too small for the amount of children that was going. Some would go in the morning and some go in the evening. Well the Masonic Hall had a building down here in front of Marion 2 (you don’t know where that’s at though; do you?) It’s on this road and all of the people that were Masonics their children could go there but the people that wasn’t Masonics their children couldn’t go there. That was the business place for the Saw Mill before it moved down to where it is now. Mrs. Brown was some of the first teachers I know. Mrs. Brown, Mrs. Shivers; (you know the Shivers). Mary Etta Shivers that was my first teacher. Mrs. Tyson she was a Japanese or Chinese or something they all came from Suffolk and she was very very nice Mrs. Brown wasn’t.
Q. You remember her first name Mrs. Brown?
A. No I don’t know her first name. Mary Etta Shivers I know her first name. I don’t know Mrs. Brown first name. All seven (7) classes was in 1 Room.
Q. Do you recall what year you are talking about now?
A. When they taught in that building it was before I was old enough to go to school but they carried me. (you know how they carry little children to school) and I’m 85 so that was beyond that.
Q. You talking about around 1915 maybe? And that was before this building (looking at a drawing).
A. The Saw Mill and the Black People got together and built this building here and we had two (2) teachers; three (3) teachers. We had a man; Shivers; No he wasn’t a Shivers I can’t think of his name right now but I can picture him just as good but I can’t think of his name right now and he was the Principal there. Our Church took charge of that. The office run. They let us have it for our children going to school and they taught the children at home anywhere they could teach them. Some people had a shed where they kept their farm tools in. They would take them out and let the people teach their children in there at their home. You couldn’t go but a half-a-day. You went in the morning or in the evening and then when spring come they took all the boys out of school and made them to go to work you know.
Q. Could you tell me about how many sisters and brother you had? Who was older?
A. It was sixteen (16) of us and twenty-two (22) of Aunt Emma Dalton. My Aunt Emma that lived up the road.
Q. Did they attend the same schools?
A. The real senior people didn’t attend no schools. They didn’t have no education. The first one that I know of we had to attend a school was Tom Glover, my Uncle Tom Glover. He, Godwin, this man that owned this big Saw Mill in Chuckatuck, I can’t think of his first name but he was a Godwin. He was White. My Grandmother was his Mama but Godwin was his Father. When he was born Godwin took him and carried him to the White School and dared any of them children to touch him. ___________ he came over and worked in Christian Home School and Church. He sold insurance, a black man selling insurance, in that day. Then she married this Eley but Godwin had already became the father of my father and he was born. She was four (4) months gone when she married him Eley and I couldn’t go to high school. He didn’t have no education so he didn’t believe in it. He think I could make like he did but I couldn’t but the Lord bless me and I made it.
Q. Did you attend any school after Christian Home?
A. No, Christian Home was the only school I attend.
Q. When you went to school how many grades were there?
A. Seven (7). You went to the seventh grade there then you left there and they had built what we called the Training School, Smithfield Training School. My parents would let me go there.
Q. How many classrooms were in the building?
A. I told you seven (7). We went to the seventh grade.
Q. How many rooms were there?
A. One (1) and one (1) teacher for all those grades.
Q. Did she have a helper?
A. Mrs. Tyson helped her with the smaller children. I don’t know her first name either but I do know Mary Etta Shivers. Their house and home is there in Smithfield now but they were raised up here.
Q. Do you recall this building having another section or two (2)?
A. They build another one the same size that one after that one got too small for the children. They had
Q. At first you had the office building and then they built just this one side and later on they added on a second side.
A. They added another piece just like that one. That helps me out because the people that I had interviewed before where only able to go back to when the second section was on there so you have given us some background before that, that we needed. Very good. You’ve told us about some of your teachers and about going to school.
Q. How did you get to school and back? How far did you go?
A. Walk. We didn’t have no other way but walk. When the weather was really bad they would take us in what we call the horse and cart to school. They didn’t have no car. Didn’t nobody have a car especially “Blacks” but Tom Glover. He sold insurance. He was very good. He was a member, the first Deacon, of this Church. Some of the first Deacons I don’t want to say he was the first Deacon because Henry Grey was one Herbert Grey was a Deacon, Tom Glover, Richard Eley, Walter Johnson too wasn’t he. I think Walter Johnson was one but I’m not sure.
Q. You have any remembrances of the things you did while you were walking to school or any experiences you had going and coming from school or people that you went to school with? Their names?
A. They were very strick on us. You had to go to school and you didn’t have time to play and mess around you had to go school and come from school and then you had to work.
Q. Who were some of your classmates?
A. You know Lorraine Brown, Hayden Brown, his wife and Hayden also. David Porter, Corrine Porter, Vert Lee Porter. Vert Lee and I graduated from the seventh grade at the same time and my IQ was as high as hers but her parents believed in education so they sent her to Training School but my parents wouldn’t send me, would let me go but I stayed here and I worked in this church. I became a teacher of Sunday, School Vacation Bible School. I helped organized the first Vacation Bible School here.
Q.Very good. So you didn’t let that stop you. That’s excellent.
Q. Did any of your brothers and sisters go with you to school?
A. Yes my sister. My Mother passed and she knew she was passing so she gave me to my Step-Mama and she gave my sister to my Aunt, my Step-Mother sister but my Aunt went on out North, she had been out there before, she went on out North and sent her to school. She went to Hampton and she was President of the big store they had in Baltimore, she was very good.
Q. You had mention that when you went to school there was no playing around and you had to come right back. Did you have any jobs to do before you left home to go to school?
A. Work in the fields. We had to chop peanuts, corn, cotton, and anything that came up. We would give the boys a run for their money. We could do just as much as they could do.
Q.You were into feminism even then.
A. Rev. S. L. Scott was the first Pastor I know of this Church. They had one (1) before but I was too small to affiliate with him.
Q. When you got to school in the mornings what kind of chores had to be done before classes could start.
A. She would listen to each one of them classes and the other children had to stay in their seat and study their lesson while this one was having his class. Then after the first grade on up to the seventh and Mrs. Brown. Mrs. Tyson came on the scene a little on and she took over. I think they had built this room here when she came on but anyway we didn’t have nothing but one (1) big classroom and had a room where they take care of business. The back room they called and they let the small children sit in there.
Q. Did you have to do anything before school started like bring in wood or anything to the classroom.
A. The boys would do that. Bring in the wood. The Mill would furnish the wood that we burned in the stove. We didn’t have nothing but wood stoves and they would furnish the wood.
Q. You said your school day was a half-a-day. Was that in the first building?
A. Yes. I wasn’t large enough to go to school. Wasn’t old enough to go to school in that office building but they would take me and carry me (you know how they carry little children to school) and sometimes they let them go because their parents were gone to work and the big children had to take of them and so they would carry them to school so they could go to school.
Q. When you started to school was it still a half-day?
A. They used a half-a-day a little while after we got in this school but soon we stayed all day.
Q. What subjects do you remember having in school?
A. We had History, Arithmetic, Geography; I loved them two (2) books. I couldn’t spell and I won’t too hot on (my husband could out spell me and out trigger me too but when it come to History and Geography I had him). I worked in the Church and Sunday School. I went up for religion but I really didn’t get religion until I was in church I don’t know how long. I wanted to be on the Usher Board and Choir. My little cousin she was already up there singing and that’s what I wanted to do. You could sing on the Choir or join the Usher Board until you join Church.
Q. Do you remember any pacific textbooks or any titles of any of your schoolbooks?
A. Like what?
Q. I mean names of the books?
A. No I got some of them packed up there at home now. Just where they are. I didn’t throw way nothing. Never come to want. Because the Bible say what … he that waste will come to …
Q. How long did you go to school during the course of a year?
A. I went the whole nine (9) months. We were out three (3) months.
Q. What could you tell us about your lunch periods? The time that you had lunch what did you do?
A. Your parents give you lunch to take to school. You didn’t have nothing to eat at school now. They would pack you a lunch and you eat it like you stole it. You know put the lunch right up to our mouth and would let nobody see you. Two (2) girls in there were very good. They worked for White People and they knew how to cook and they opened their lunch box and eat normal but we didn’t. We didn’t want nobody to see what we had.
Q. Do you know what kind of lunches you packed?
A. They give you plenty preserves, that was one (1) of the main things, and preserves, you know the different things that they ate. I know preserve was a big one.
Q. What can you tell me about recess? How often did you have recess? What kind of games did you like to play?
A. We played ball, baseball and dodge ball. And I thought I could do that thing.
Q.You probably could.
A. I could.
Q.You probably were good with it.
Q. Any other games that you played or anything that went on during your recess time that you want to tell us about?
A. Baseball, dodge ball, football hadn’t come into being.
Getting back to the classroom.
Q. How would you describe what was in the room that you had class in? How would describe it?
A. We had a big room. The boys on one side and the girls on the other. All seven (7) classes was in that big room. She had about 15 minutes for each class. Come up and recite what they had done and all.
Q. What did the room look like? What was in it beside ______________?
A. Nothing but seats. They had some benches that our parents had made.
Q. You didn’t have the regular desk.
A. No. They made a type of desk to it. Put a board cross there and you could write and do on that but you carried your books to school in a book bag and you kept your books in your book bag and each child kept their own books in their book bag.
Your classroom; You said the boys and girls sat on different sides.
A. Yes.
Q. The teacher; did she have any extra materials? What did she have? Just the desk.
A. She had her desk and that’s all I can think of.
Q. The heat was supplied by?
A. We had wood heaters.
Q. How did you get the wood? You said the boys did that? What did the girls do?
A. The Lumber Company and the parents would cut wood and they would let their children bring it to school. The boys.
Q. What about the rest room area? Was that the building on the outside?
A. This Church had a toilet. That’s what you called it and the school used the Church toilet and we were chaperone by grown people to go from the school down here and up there beside that field to what we called the toilet.
Q. What did you do for water during the school day? Where did you get your water from?
A. That well. I think the well is still there. Ain’t it a well out there?
Q. I didn’t see one.
A. It’s some tiles out there. It was. That’s where we got out water from right out there on that Church ground.
Q. Across the street?
A. It was on this side. I think the tiles are still there now. Well that’s where we got our water. I was thinking it was over there by the school.
A. No it wasn’t on that side of the road it was on the Church ground.
Yea I hadn’t look over here. We hadn’t looked over here yet.
Q. Did you have chalkboards in the room?
A. Yes. We called them blackboards.
Q. Any other school supplies you can think of that you haven’t mentioned? Your pencils and that kind of thing?
A. We had our own pencils. Every child had its own pencil and paper.
Q. How were you getting your books? Who gave you your books? Did you have purchase your own books?
A. We got them through the school.
Q. Did the teacher usually have any aides or anything on the wall to help you learn? Did you have pictures on the wall? Your alphabets?
A. We had alphabets on the wall. We had them in writing and then we had them in print.
Q: In Cursive?
A. Whatever.
Q. Was there a separate room like a cloakroom for your clothes?
A. Yes we had a closet. Everybody went in and put his coat in the closet. He didn’t put it in there we had to have a special somebody to put the coats in the closet.
Q: Going back to the lunch period. Did your teacher ever have anything special that she would fix for you as a surprise?
A. I can’t remember all that now. I can’t say it didn’t happen.
Q. What was done about discipline in the classroom? How did she keep everything in order and what type of punishment?
A. You were whipped with a paddle in your hand if you did something that didn’t approve of the school standards.
Q. Are there any other school experiences that you want to tell us about? Anything that you recall?
A. I can’t thing of nothing I haven’t told you.
Q. Are there any experiences that you remember from that period that didn’t have anything to do with school? Just growing-up or going places or things that you did at home? Anything in that line?
A. We would have what we called exhibit work. We make little pieces of different things, you know. Like a doll baby dress and sometimes we would make a skirt for the person, you know, if somebody give enough material and they did piecing up pillows, tops, and quilts. Those people were very famous for making quilts and they would make the throw pieces for elder people, you know to put on their laps.
Q. What kind of fun experiences or activities did the community have that you recall doing at that time.
A. Nothing but baseball that I know of and dodge ball.
Q. Are there any programs that you recall from your period?
A. Oh, yes we had programs. We said recitations and solos and stuff like that. We had programs like that.
Q: In your life span you said after you went to school you weren’t allowed to go to the Training School. What kind of experiences did you have after that as far as jobs and things of that nature?
A. I told you I worked in the Church a lot and I worked with the Vacation Bible School. We got together Mrs. Johnson and all of our Vacation Bible School they was having that in Franklin so she helped us with having that and I worked in that very hard.
Q: The remainder of your time you spent as a housewife or did you?
A. I didn’t hold down no public job no more than fieldwork. Working in the field with the children.
Q: Is there anything that you would like to tell us about the county as a whole as far as what you think things were like then and now what you think? Are there any improvements that you particularly enjoy or things you wish were still the same.
A. No, I’m glad everything have changed. I’m better.
Q: OK then. I don’t have any other questions. Is there anything else that you would like to add? If not then you’ve more than added to our interview experience and we appreciate it.
A. I can’t think of nothing else.
Q. (Daughter)-You have any experiences you want to share with us about Papa and Big Mama?
A. They were Deacon and Deaconess. My Step-Mother use to keep me at home a lot to be with her because she was a scary person so Joe Hawkins (I reckon you’ve heard talk of him a lot around here) Frances Hawkins, her Daddy didn’t like it so he got on her about that and the next year she sent me to school everyday rain or shine, hail or whatever I went to school. My IQ was good but they just didn’t send me to school.
Q: Unfortunately that happens with a lot of families. At that time they didn’t think that education was that important.
A. Yes because they didn’t get none.
Q. (daughter)-Did Aunt Marie go to school with you?
A. No I told you. Aunt Banks went off to Williamsburg. No it wasn’t Williamsburg.
Q. (Daughter)-Aunt Marie went with Aunt Banks?
A. No she didn’t go with her. She went off and she has a job and she worked and sent money home to her husband, he kept the children. Her husband, my sister and her boys, she didn’t have no girls. She and cousin Novella believe in school. They all believe in school so they sent their children so she her along with them and she went to Hampton University and got a good education. She was very good. She runs that big store in Maryland and I didn’t know that until all of them was dead and gone. All my people are dead now except me and I’m related to some of the _____s, did you know the Grey’s down in Chuckatuck?
Q. Would Neavy Graves be one of them?
A. Who? Neavy Graves, he’s down the hall.
A. The truth about things, you can’t get the whole story.
That is true and the _________________________
END OF INTERVIEW