Mrs. Catherine Y. Edwards

Interview with Mrs. Catherine Y. Edwards

June 20, 2003
Interviewed by Sandra M. Lowe and Herb DeGroft

Mrs. Edwards attended Carrollton School (white) along with her 5 sisters and brothers. It was a two-story brick building with five teachers. After marriage and children, she opened a private kindergarten for local children.

Q:Mrs. Edwards, can you tell us your date of birth?

A: November 7, 1909.

Q: What area of Isle of Wight did you grow up in?

A: Benn's Church, it was Benn's Church, Virginia at that time. There was a Post Office, grocery store and all kinds of things going on at Benn’s Church. The Post Office and grocery store was all one big store. The Post Office was to one side; we had to ask for our mail, it wasn't delivered.

Q: How many sisters and brothers did you have?

A: I had three sisters and two brothers. I only have one sister and one brother and myself living.

Q: Do you know what schools they attended?

A: The boys went to the Smithfield School but all the girls went to Carrollton School. We had a horse drawn wagon and the neighbors and all and the young ones went together. In the wintertime the roads were so bad we mostly got out and walked. You had to leave early in the morning because it was at least an hour from Benn’s Church to Carrollton. I reckon it was maybe more than that with the horse drawn wagon. Then we got to school and we had to find a place for the horse and the wagon until we were ready to go back home in the afternoon. We had about, I would say, about ten children in that wagon.

Q: So you picked up other neighbors?

A: Just around that neighborhood at that time. Then when we went to Smithfield we did stop along the highway and picked up different ones.

Q: When you were at Carrollton School how many grades were taught there?

A: You know I really don't know. I think it was nine. We had five teachers and ah, Olive Branch, I don't know whether you knew her, teacher in Isle of Wight. She was my first grade teacher. The first grade and second grade were in one room; they occupied just one room. There was a second story building and ah whenever we finished the third grade we went into Smithfield.

Q: How many rooms did you have?

A: I imagine, I don't know how many rooms, but I think there were nine grades. There were two or three grades per room; there were five teachers. I remember there was an upstairs and a downstairs. I remember there was a long hall in the building and the porch; it had a long porch on the front. Carrollton school had a hall on the grounds. It was used for our graduation and also for putting on programs for the mothers and all the parents coming in. The Ruritans meet there. The Women's Club still meets there and they even had a wedding and a reception there this past year. So, they keep that up and going. That was one of our highlights, we thought it was great to go to the hall and put on programs there for our parents and so forth when I was growing up. The hall was located on the grounds of the school. The hall is still there; the school of course has been taken down.

Q: Miss Kitty, do you remember was the downstairs all open, were there two rooms downstairs in the school?

A: An as well as I remember when you went in the door there was a long hall and the school classes are on each side, as well as I remember and one upstairs. As I said I went up to the third grade in this school and then I went to Smithfield. I can't remember why, what we did.

Q: Do you remember the names of the five teachers?

A: Olive Branch was the first and second grade teacher and we had Matt Lattimer and we had a Miss Rosen who was from Chuckatuck. Then we had a Mr. Shepherd; I don't know where he was from. Miss Timberlake, at that time she was Miss Timberlake, we all know her now as Mrs. Charlie Davis, of course all of them are gone you know, they all have passed away.

Q: What can you recall about the history of the building, where it was?

A: Well, it was out in sort of a field type of arrangement. It was out in the open and ah we had a baseball diamond/right in front of the school and ah, that was one of our highlights of the school, the baseball diamond. We went to different schools and they came to Carrollton. I was always the one that got a black eye. I got hit in the eye with a ball. I went to school from about 1916 to 1919. I was six years old when I went into the first grade.

Q: That building, what do you recall about it being torn down?

A: Well it was a white wood frame building and there were no toilets or anything. When you went into the room you saw a big blackboard and you saw a desk for two people. We what they call double desk, two sat together. Each had our little cubbyhole like right under the desk. We had a wood stove and in the wintertime the first thing we did was to gather wood and come in and build our own fire. The only light, we didn't have any electricity or anything, we used a lantern for lights. We had a place to hang our coats in the same big room. Of course, the teacher had a calendar; we talked about the calendar, and also a flag. Olive Branch was our pianist. We loved her dearly because we loved her music. She taught us a lot of songs. She taught us America and we learned the Pledge of Allegiance and we had what we called, they call it now, show and tell. We all had something to tell. We went to school, as I said, in a horse drawn cart. My daddy owned the horse; his name was Billy. We had what we called a covered wagon and the folks that lived around there went with us, about eight or ten in the wagon, I don't think it was over that, might not have been that many.

Q: Do you remember some of the names of some of the children?

A: Yeah, right across the road from us was the Lucsie's. I know one of the girls names was Elizabeth and I think another was named Lillian where that sand, all that sand is right now there use to be a home or a farm out there. Then the Jerden's had a big house up there, whether we went down and got them or whether they came down to meet us, but anyway I think that was all the children, all the families around in there at that time.

Q: Did you have little chores and things you had to do before you could go to school?

A: Oh yeah, we were taught to keep our rooms like they should be in, and make up our beds and learn to cook and ah when we came home from school we used a woodstove, too, so we had to put wood on the porch and ah we didn't have any bathroom, no conveniences, we had to do what they called, go down the hill and the same thing about school, there were no conveniences.

Q: Was your father a farmer?

A: Yes, he was a farmer. He did most of the work himself; he was the kind he wanted it done correctly. The only way he could get it done correctly was to do it himself.

Q: Once you got to school were there jobs that had to be done by the children?

A: Well I think we usually washed the blackboard and dusted the erasers. I guess the trash can trash went in the stove I reckon, I don't guess they had any pick up, I know for sure they didn't. We all got the wood for the stove to keep us warm. I know they called them pot-bellied stoves. We all took turns getting wood for the stove at the school. We were taught to keep ourselves clean and keep the room with everything in its place.

Q: When you arrived did everyone wait outside until they were told to come in?

A: As well as I remember, depending on the weather. Our group would line up and come in and find a place to sit. I don't know whether we were assigned a desk or whether we just picked a desk to sit in.

Q: Do you think you sat at the same desk during the same grade all year long?

A: Well as I said ah, for the first and second grades I imagine we did. I can see that the desk were over here then there was a walkway then the second grade was on the other side of the room. There were two classes in a room and the teacher took turns ah hearing from one class. I was thinking the other day it seems like to me, the other class was given something else to do or else if it was a pretty day they went outside. The teacher handled both of the grades. Miss Branch taught both the first and second grade. We didn't have books; it was too expensive for each one of us to have a book. The books were kept at school; we couldn't take them home. The teacher would sit and read to us and a lot of times she would go up to the board and write a word according to what animal was there or whatever. That brought forth a lot of conversation because some of them had pets and they could tell you about there pet. We didn't have any reading books or spelling books. Everything was as a group; we didn't take anything home. I can see that big thick tablet though right now, lines on it and the big pencils. She would write on the board, her name on the board and remind us of whom she was and we would try to write the letters of her name. She would walk around and give each of a page from the big thick tablet. Of course, at that age everyone wanted a tablet and pencil of their own but they didn't get it.

Q: Do you remember any of the subjects you had in those first three years?

A: Well, I'm sure we had reading and writing and spelling and arithmetic they call it. The arithmetic as I remember was mostly games like how many boys over here or how many girls over here. Then the teacher would write it on the board, five or six or whatever and that's the way we learned our math.

Q: Do you remember any books that stand out in your mind?

A: The McGuffey Readers was the name of the books of the first grade and second grade. In fact all of the school had the same McGuffey Readers through the school. One little book costs l2 cents one little McGuffey reading book. When you got up to the sixth grade it costs 72 cents.

Q: Do you remember when the school year started?

A: I don't know whether it started in September or not, I imagine it started in September I think.

Q: Do you remember if your classmates took a lot of time out for farming?

A: Well I think they did when they got up into the higher grades. The first and second grades were more like play time. I was taught how to do things around home. You learned to cook and clean and set the table and all these kinds of things. When summer time came we always had to save everything. You had to pick the strawberries and save all of those and all the fruits were saved for the winter. I can see myself sitting now on that long back porch attached to my home and each of us had a pail. We were snapping beans or we'd go to pick butterbeans and all these kinds of things. Yeah, we went through all that and save them for winter.

Q: What would your lunch period consist of?

A: I don't remember what we took to lunch but we took our lunch and ate in the classroom. I remember a boy had a big bucket and he opened the bucket and there was a big sweet potato and I thought, "oh a sweet potato for lunch!" But it was fine; it was a good sweet potato.

Q: Do you recall the typical things you would have taken to school for lunch?

A: I imagine that my mother would have biscuits, I don't know whether she had bread or not but I think she had biscuits. Maybe she put some cheese in there or if we had some bacon, we had our own bacon you know and ham, usually we had our own ham and chickens.

Q: Would you take something to drink from home or would you have a spring you could get water from at school?

A: They had what they called a pump at school. It seems to me that we took something to drink, water more or less although it was a pump outside that we could pump. Everybody had there own containers as far as I remember.

Q: What do you remember about recess time?

A: Well recess ah, we took it by classes cause there seemed to be a lot of space out there but the different classes had their own recess. The older class liked to play baseball and in the wintertime we had a pond that the older group would go skating on and I always got wet. Mrs. Nosworthy lived over on the hill and the teacher would have to take me over there to get me dry. Lucy, who was my sister, we all liked to play running games. At one time we ran into each other and I gave her a black bump on the head and she gave me a black eye and I said that's why my eyes are so black.

Q: The building was heated with the woodstove?

A: Yes, as far as I remember we had one stove. One stove heated the classroom.

Q: You had lighting from your windows?

A: Yes we had glass panes in the windows.

Q: What do you remember about the discipline that was handed out?

A: Well, I was thinking about that. I guess we stood in the corner. I don't remember anyone using a branch or paddle. We had to shake hands after we got into a fuss. One little girl shook hands and said, "I hope I shook all the meanness out of ya". We were taught politeness at home and how to behave and respect people and so we did the same thing when we went to school. We respected our teachers and friends; to have a friend is to be a friend. All of that I guess was from home to school.

Q: Can you think of any other positive memories of school or anything else we haven't talked about?

A: We enjoyed going to the hall and putting on our plays. We had different plays that we learned to do. One was topsy-turvy land and we put shoes on our hands and we had a curtain up and it was as if we were turning upside down, that was called topsy-turvy land. Olive would play the piano and we would do all of these little crazy things you know. Then another time we had what we called an umbrella drill. That was with music and everybody's umbrella was closed except for mine, I had to stand up there with it open. All these little things came back to me.

Q: Did you have any interesting incidents when riding the covered wagon back and forth from home to school or from school back to home?

A. Well, I know that the roads were terrible in the wintertime and a lot of times we would get out and walk. When we got stuck in the mud we had to push the wagon, had to get in the back and push the wagon out of the mud. That didn’t happen many times.

Q: Who would drive the wagon?

A: Us girls, the students that rode in the wagon drove the wagon and we did the same thing when we went to Smithfield. I guess we had a special place for the horse and the wagon while we were in school. When we went to Smithfield we drove a wagon and picked up along the highway what we called Red Point Heights at that time. We'd have to make arrangements for our horse and wagon to stay on this side and we would go across the bridge, walk across the bridge. Sometimes, one time we had to get in a rowboat and row across. I remember this black man had one arm and he would call me baby because I was scared to death to get in that rowboat and go from one end to the other. Then we would walk up to school. Where they have the fire department now, that was a school that I first went to. Right in back of where the Post Office is now. When the bridge was down. Oh. That was something. I was on a panel up here one time and I told them the experience of when the bridge was down and they thought, "What in the world is she talking about". But somebody that was seated then, my daughter-in-law said, "she's right, she's right, let her keep on talking". So I know I didn't make it up. But, the bridge was down and they put what they called a barge came up and people got on the barge. The barge had ropes on each side and somebody got on this side and somebody got on the other side and pulled the barge across to the other side. That's how we went. This was the area by the Smithfield Station. Cypress Creek. Anyway it was quite an experience.

Q: Any other positive memories of school or teachers or students?

A: We had a lot of games that everybody could be a part of you know. London Bridge, tag, I forgot what it was that we picked sides, fox in the clover. Fox in the clover all come over. Somebody hollered "fox in the clover all come over" and whoever announced that, the other side had to get over as quick as they could if they weren't they were caught and had to remain on that side. We had plenty of games to keep us busy. Our music teacher put all these games into music. We did Mother Goose and so forth. She was great! I think we all enjoyed going to the hall and putting on our programs for the parents or friends. We did those in the daytime.

Q: You went to school Monday through Friday or did you go Saturday too?

A: No, we went Monday through Friday.

Q: What did you do on holidays at school or did you have off holidays?

A: No, I think we were in school talking about George Washington and we had a program for George Washington at his birthday. Or on Valentine's we had Valentine's program, everybody got a Valentine. We would make our own Valentines and had a box to put them in. everybody got a Valentine. We took Sears and Roebucks books; we didn't have the regular red paper and all. Whatever we cut out a Valentine on the color page out of the catalog.

Q: Do you have any negative memories of your school days?

A: You know I was trying to think about that and I thought, well you know I guess I was taught at home to be thankful for what we did have and put it to use. I can't remember, I know a lot of positive and I was so glad to have a lot of friends and teachers.

Q: You said you had three sisters and two brothers. You said Lucy was your next sister?

A: Elizabeth was the oldest sister and then Lucy and me.

Q: How old was Elizabeth?

A: She was. I think there were about two years’ difference in our ages. Margarita, my youngest sister is over here in the Convalescent Home now. And I had two brothers, they were born about ten years after the girls and I remember we were playing hopscotch out the back door where we drew the hopscotch in the dirt. They said "you've got a brother" and we all went wild. I was ten or twelve then.

Q: How many grades were there at Smithfield School?

A: I think there were twelve. They went from fourth through twelve. I was real active in High School. I enjoyed music and I was a Glee Chub member and I was a Quartet member and we went to different schools and put on our programs.

Q: How many rooms do you think were in the Smithfield building?

A: I don't know, there were twelve grades so they were individual rooms, so at least

Eight. We all congregated in the auditorium every now and then. I remember Dolk Simpson getting up and said he had an announcement to make He said he had a sister that was just born and named her Annabelle. So we had to sing this about Annabelle.

Q: Are there any other school experiences that you would like to tell us about?

A: Well, as I said I played baseball with the group. We played boys against the girls. Got so we were right good, I could make a homerun. We had a nice diamond.

Q: What time of the morning would you leave for school?

A: We had to leave by 7:00 or 8:00 o'clock anyway. We would leave after the sun came up and get home before the sun went down.

Q: Did you pick whom you sat beside in the double desk or did the teacher say whom you sat beside?

A: No, I don't know whether we did or not.

Q: Would a boy and girl have sat at the same double desk?

A: I have a feeling that the boys would sit with boys and girls with girls.

Q: After you finished high school what was life like?

A: I went to business school that was before I was married of course. After that, in 1928 the James River Bridge opened and I was employed there for three years. I was nineteen years old when it opened. My fiancé would come in real often to take me home in the afternoon. Mr. Johnson who was the President said, "Katherine, how are you going today"? I said, oh, we’d go across the bridge and have something to eat and go to a show. It was a house type building on the Isle of Wight side of the bridge. It was a little house and we occupied the whole building. It was a two story wooden building. I know Mr. Johnson had his office and then his secretary had her office and I had my office and the patrolman had a special place for him to be. They had patrolmen patrol the bridge.

Q: Did cars as well as horse and buggies go across the bridge?

A: I can't remember if the horse and buggies went but people walked across, rode bicycles. My daddy after he retired from the farm got on the shift from twelve till eight in the morning and he spent his time fishing if there wasn't a lot of traffic going on. After I married I had a sister, the one that's in the Convalescent home, take my place at the office. She stayed there and then the State took it over. My older sister was on the other side of the bridge for advertisement purposes handing out information. But my younger sister, after she left she went to the Princess Anne Country Club for thirty-five years.

Q: What did you do as far as raising a family?

A: We married in 1933; Norm was my husband's name. I had planned on a church wedding with bridesmaids. My mother died five days before my wedding and it was such a blow for everybody. The dresses for the bridesmaids had been made. My bridal dress, I had an Aunt who lived in Norfolk, she had gotten the dresses for me and they accepted it back, except for the hat. I had this big hat; everybody kept their hats. Norm and I were married in 1933 and in 1936 we had our first child. We only had the immediate family at the Church.

Q: When did you begin working again after raising a family?

A: I stayed home to raise Dawn and Mary Katherine. I substituted some in the School. I remember Edward Saunders use to have me come in. I substituted right much for the third grade.

Q: Did you begin the school that you had after that?

A: My sister-in-law had a child that had to have something to do. So right in our Community we had seven children so I organized a little playschool. I'd pick them up in the morning and take them back. That's how I began my kindergarten.

Q: Do you want to tell us a little about your kindergarten days?

A: Well, ah, it was very much organized; it had to be of course. I started it in 1954 and I had it in my home twenty-two years. Then, as I said I went to the Academy and opened it there. Some of the students that I had registered for the coming year went there or to the public school. The threes and fours went to Benn’s Church and that's how that got started.

Q: You kept that in operation until when?

A: At my home it was from 1954 till 1976. Then it went to the Academy and to Benn’s Church.

Q: Is there anything else you would like to tell us that we haven't covered? It could be school or personal.

A: Well, as I said I transported, when I had the kindergarten, I transported the children. I had a three-seated station wagon and we put on different plays and asked our parents to come. One day we were going to act out the story of Mary and Joseph. I had one little boy, Roger Beale was going to be Joseph and he wouldn't do it at the last minute. He wouldn't put on the costume. Some little girl, our Minister's little girl, said I'll do it. So she dressed up and she was Joseph. It brought back allot of information and I have a lot of it in my book. When I left here in 1977. In 1976 I also went to Surry and opened up a kindergarten up there for the five-year-olds that were going into school that following year. Then I came back home that summer and opened it up again for those who didn't get in kindergarten and had it down there. I was more or less putting on an Indian program. We fixed the tents and made the costumes and did all the dancing and everything. That's in that book too.

Q: Anything you want to tell us that you did after that point up until today?

A: Well as I said my daughter graduated in 1958 from high school and my son graduated from Tech in 1958 so both of them were a lot of help to me in my kindergarten. I've got a Mother Goose shoe about 6 or 8 feet tall. Down at the museum they want me to show. I still got that shoe but I don't think it will fit in that window. At all the graduations we put on a program of something we had done throughout the year. One of them was they were all dressed up like little soldier boys. They had their little caps and coats and all. We had graduation every year and had the May Pole every year.

Q: When you were in elementary school do you remember doing anything like that, like a Maypole?

A: No, no I don't. I don't remember doing anything. I was interested in music when I got to Smithfield and I joined the different organizations there. Then they had an organization in Smithfield, PAM, and I joined that. That's when we would go to different Churches and put on a program. I kept busy, but now I don't do anything but sit.

Q: Miss Kitty, when you went to elementary school and left Benn's Church was the road, as it exists now pretty much the same as then? You'd go up to where Knox's is and go down Newsworthy then go around and down?

A: We had what we called a line-gate. We always had a little boy that was at the gate to open the gate. You always gave him 5 cents or whatever.

Q: So you went across Brewer's Creek up here at the shallow end. You didn't go down and go across where Colonel Wooster lives.

A: No. Where did I see something about a line-gate, must have been in Helen's book. There was always a little boy sitting up there and you had to tip him a nickel or something. Sometimes there wasn't anybody there and you had to get out and open it yourself, but that was right as the end of the lane.

Q: Was it a short cut or was that a regular route that you took?

A: Why was it a line-gate? It was a main road but was called a line-gate.

Q: I’m interested that at the elementary school you said that Miss Branch played for you, that was in the Hall, where you put on your skits, not in the classroom, is that right?

A: Yes, that’s right but we had a piano in our room too. When I first opened my kindergarten she came down and played for me, that was in “54”.

Q: I wonder what happened to the piano?

A: I had my piano when I lived over on Jordan Drive. When I was going to move to Blacksburg, Johnny Edwards got my piano. I would love to have a place for it.

Q: Mrs. Edwards, thank you for letting us come in and talk with you. Thank you very much.