Q: April 2nd, Wednesday, and we are at Emmanuel Baptist Church, interviewing Mr. Howard Gray. Uh, Mr. Gray, first of all can you tell us, when you were born and uh, where you grew up?
A: Okay, I was born January 23rd, 1933, and I grew up right in this area around Emmanuel Baptist Church in Smithfield and I attended Trinity School. I guess you might say it was some exciting days during my youth. Uh, school, the school, which was a wooden structure and uh, we had wooden desks and wooden chairs and uh, chalkboards were used and uh, our teachers at the time that I started, it was just a year after Mr. Quarels had left and gone to the Army, in the Army, and uh, so at that time we just only had two teachers.
Q: Okay, now were there just two classrooms or were there more classrooms?
A: There were three classrooms but what they done they had a petition and which two of the rooms were moved back of the petition and put it all in one large classroom and uh, that’s where they combined all the classes together.
Q: And uh, what grades were taught?
A: From first, which was the primer, to the sixth grade. No, I’m sorry, the seventh grade at that time. It went to the seventh grade.
Q: You mentioned the primer. Was that pre-primer?
A: Yeah, you went, I don’t know if it was six months or so, so many months you attend that and then you went to first grade.
Q: Okay, and uh, when you were at Trinity, did you go through, was it Trinity?
A: Yeah, Trinity, yes.
Q: Did you go uh, from first through the sixth? Or did, did you attend fewer grades than that?
A: I went from first through the sixth and then after the sixth grade, then they had moved the seventh grade to the Training School. So during that period of time they moved it while I was in; therefore, I, uh, when I come to the, passed the second grade, I had to go to the Training School.
Q: Do you recall uh, any of your teachers?
A: Pardon?
Q: Do you recall or remember your teachers from any of those grades?
A: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Q: Can you tell us, uh, something about them?
A: Okay. My first, it had to of been, first three grades, my teacher was Mrs. Long, Mrs. Gwendolyn Long. Uh, she was originally from Portsmouth and later years, she married a Denson, Russell Denson…and during that period, she stayed with us a little while, a short time with my parents, stayed with my parents, which we lived right near the school.
Q: Any other teachers?
A: Okay, yeah, then, from that, uh, Mrs. E. B. Godwin, yeah, she was my teacher up until I left and went to the Training School.
Q: Do you know anything about the history of Trinity School? Uh, when it started or, or how many rooms there were at the beginning or if it, the number of rooms changed or anything?
A: No, I really can’t say too much on that, uh, but just from the period of time I was there, it was always three rooms.
Q: Okay…and, uh, how did you get to school and back?
A: We walked. Well, I was just, wasn’t but five minutes walk. We lived right behind the school so I was right at the school, almost.
Q: Would that have been uh, about a mile or less than a mile?
A: Oh, no, no, no. Less than a half a mile. Yeah.
Q: Did you uh, your family, uh, were they farmers, did you have jobs to do before you had to go to school?
A: Well, basically, farmers. Yeah, basically we were farmers.
Q: What were uh, some of the things you would do before you, left for school since you were so close?
A: Uh, well, we get up in the mornings uh, we would lots of the time had to feed chickens, uh hogs, feed the team. Uh, my brother and I had goats so had to take them out, put them out in the mornings before school.
Q: Were those, uh, the goats your responsibility or you said you and your brother had goats uh, so were they pretty much left for you to take care of?
A: Well, basically they were pets, they were pet goats. They, uh, pets.
Q: And a learning experience, how to take care of and be responsible for, for your pets. When you got in school, were there any jobs that had to be done before the school day started?
A: Well, if we got, yes uh, a lot of times uh, if we, especial with myself being close, we would get there kinda early, and we might have to assist the teacher in making fire, we make fire, getting wood and coal and all these things, we had to do.
Q: And, uh what were the other children doing, uh, what did you do before you actually came into the building to start the day? Were they, most of them working to get the building set up or were the rest of the children playing?
A: Well, by the time most of them, cause most, just about all of them had to walk, and by the time they got there, it was just about time to, you know once they got their cloaks and stuff and got settled down, it was just about class time. And a lot of times a few of them would be late coming in class.
Q: Uh, since you didn’t have far to go uh, you didn’t have much experience with having, the bad weather or anything to stop you from going to school?
A: Not as bad, not as bad, no.
Q: Uh, once everyone, everything was lined up in the morning, you had your, uh, classroom set up, how did the school day start?
A: Well, the first thing in the morning we would, would be devotion. That was the first thing was we got in and got settled down and we would have uh, devotion.
Q: And what would that involve?
A: Okay, we would have prayer and Bible verses and also we had the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.
Q: And uh, what would some of your subjects have been?
A: Well, we uh, started out, uh, used to have these little, what do you call, primer books that we would, See Jane Run and Jack and Jill. There’s so many books now, you know, in the lower grades but we moved up, you know, we moved into history and, but basically then it was just staying with the three R’s.
Q: Uh, do you remember any, uh, specific textbooks, you mentioned those? Uh, you remember any, any particular experiences that took place during class or, any subjects that you particularly liked and enjoyed, that uh, you might recall anything taking place like the way you went, had your history class or what you did for math or spelling? Any, anything in that line?
A: No, was one thing about being, if you was studying and you had a problem, the teacher would be right there with you to make sure that you knew and understood exactly what was what. It wasn’t a thing like, you know, today you get this or you wouldn’t miss it or what we did, you know. They stayed there with you.
Q: In your classroom, you would have had, uh, a couple grades in each room?
A: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, right, right.
Q: First, second and third all in one classroom and so forth? Uh, did you find or feel that that was a problem having all, having all those grades in one room or, or were you all able to pretty much go do your work without interference?
A: It wasn’t really a problem because they basically would have sectioned off, you know, all of first grade, second grade, third grade. She would work with whatever particular grade she was working with. Then if you, you know, you was on another grade and had a problem, you would just hold up your hand and get her attention, you know, she would, would help you.
Q: And uh, how long was your school day?
A: Okay, I think at that time, we went, uh, I think it started from 9 until 3.
Q: And did you uh, did you go the full, uh, nine months from September until May or June?
A: Whatever it was, yeah.
Q: Uh, when you were in, in school, they didn’t take any time out for harvesting or uh, farm crops? I mean, not a whole block of time.
A: No, no. Well, a lot of the children, uh, we would, uh, maybe miss a day or two, maybe that would, perhaps we had to get the peanuts up or something like that, you know. Well, in my case, I really, you know, I really didn’t, uh, lose a lot of time like in that sense, you know. If I stayed out, it wouldn’t be maybe over a day or two days. I really didn’t lose a lot of time, uh.
Q: How long was your lunch period?
A: Um. I guess it had to been 30 minutes, I guess. That’s what I, really can’t say definitely.
Q: Do you remember, uh, any specifics about your lunch period, what, uh, was done and if you had time for recess or any experiences you remember?
A: Yeah, we would eat and had time to, yeah. Yeah, recess, right.
Q: Could you go outside when you finished eating or, or did you eat outside most of the time?
A: Most of the time we ate inside and then after you ate, then you could go outside for recess. They might, sometimes, the weather was really pretty warm, they might would let you, if you went out, everybody would sit under the shade tree and eat, you know, in that sense.
Q: Uh, did you have uh, any other recess besides, what was left over from lunch?
A: Um, seems like, to me, we had a afternoon break, I believe. Ten or fifteen minutes in the afternoon, something like 2 or 2:30, something like that. I just don’t recall exactly now.
Q: Uh, how was your building heated?
A: Oh, back then, uh, with wood and coal, wood and coal.
Q: Do you know if, the parents of the students provided the wood or did the county provide anything for the…
A: The county provided the coal. The wood, the kids used to have to go into the woods and get the wood. The teacher would send, uh, send us, you know, two or three boys at the time, some of us, to get, to go through the woods and get wood.
Q: Okay. And, where were your restrooms and anything you can tell me about that?
A: Okay, restrooms. They would just be outdoor toilets. That’s what we had. Two of them. One on one side for the boys and one for the girls.
Q: Okay, and uh, what did you do for water during the day?
A: We had a pump.
Q: Was that outside too?
A: Outside pump, uh-huh.
Q: Uh, did you go outside, when you needed, out to the pump, when you needed water or did you bring, uh, containers indoors?
A: We had a inside container. We’d go get it and put it in this container and they would drink from that, you know…. and which I think they had cups there if I’m not mistaken.
Q: Uh, did they uh, what can you tell me about the teacher’s desk and her supplies?
A: Well, her deskus was, they was hand, hand made deskus, was you know, a rather neat, I mean it wasn’t just, you know, something that would hold together. They were fairly new and the supplies, if I recall, right every so often somebody, I don’t know what, the ladies come around and bring supplies to the teacher. I don’t know whether once a month or twice but anyway, every so often, she would bring in these supplies.
Q: As far as you know, those supplies, uh, came from the county?
A: Yeah, I’m sure they did, I’m sure they came from the county.
Q: The, the desks, the teacher’s desk and the students’ desks that you say were handmade, do you think they were, uh, made in the county by someone or probably brought in from some company that, that made furniture?
A: Well, I do know some of them were made at, were some prisoner somewhere. So I don’t guess that would have been in the county. But, you know, through the county they, they were brought in.
Q: Were they all wood or, or …
A: Wood, yeah.
Q: Did they have metal?
A: No, all wood. They had wood back then. Yes.
Q: And, uh were they the type that opened up on the top and you had a supply area inside or were your storage areas more like a little shelf underneath?
A: Yeah, well, uh, let me see if I can remember. Most of these desks that we had, I think, was a little shelf went in on the bottom of it. I think that’s the way most of them were. They may had a few opened from the top.
Q: A mixture?
A: Yeah, I think it was, a mixture. See by having three classrooms, they had different things.
Q: Okay.
A: Yeah, and see, with that there, different size seats and all for ‘em.
Q: Uh, did you have a blackboard or chalkboard in each room or were there more than one?
A: Had a blackboard, each room had a blackboard. Right on up against the wall, against the wall.
Q: Would you have had more than one board or?
A: Oh, yeah, yeah, uh-huh.
Q: Alright. Was there anything else in your classroom besides the teacher’s desk, students’ desks, the chalkboard and your stove? Do you recall anything else being in the room?
A: We had one cabinet. Now this was built, this might have been built at the prison. Uh, cabinet with glass front doors. Almost similar to the cabinets setting up there which was glass front doors and at the bottom was uh, you know, with open/close doors, open shelves.
Q: And what was that used for?
A: Okay, that’s where your, maybe someone like I might say, history books or different books that were donated or something of that nature. You know, beyond your textbooks.
Q: Okay, so they were, they would have been books that you stored there until they were needed or more like a reference book?
A: Right, right, right, right.
Q: Okay, and were there any teaching aides on the wall? Do you recall anything any pictures or letters of the alphabet or ___?
A: Yeah, um-huh. Yes, there was. I know we had that cross on the wall, had the alphabets, small letter, capital letter and I’m trying to think, I don’t know, of numbers. I believe we had the numbers one through nine, I believe. I think that was up there.
Q: Okay, anything else in the room?
A: Ummmm.
Q: Pretty sparse? Just the basics?
A: I can’t remember now.
Q: Uh, did you have, how was your, lighting? Where did you get the, the light to see by and to do your work by? Was there any type of fixture in there or was it all, whatever came out from the windows?
A: Well, basically that, uh, that was, uh, during the day, would be, uh, the light came through from the windows so all over the school they had a great lump. Tall windows almost reached up to almost to the top. Ceiling, they had long shades, you know, where they could pull down and if it got, well they used them basically, they used to have a certain level that they all would be, not unless it got really dark, cloudy and they had to raise them that morning, yeah, but for nights, we had kerosene lamp lights.
Q: Now those were kept in the building all the time?
A: Yeah, they were kept; someone probably would store them maybe in the closet, somewhere in the closet.
Q: Okay, now that brings me to the uh, storage of your coats and hats. And, uh, did you have a particular place for that? Did you have a cloakroom?
A: Yeah. Each, each room had, had a cloakroom, which we called the closet and we would hang our coats in.
Q: Uh, was that room used for anything else?
A: Probably maybe a little storage. I mean, like I say, if someone had extra, you know, that maybe they had some material or something they wasn’t using or something of that nature, they would, you know, put in there, temporarily.
Q: Uh-huh, so, you said, three rooms and each room had a cloakroom?
A: Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah.
Q: Uh, can you recall any other school experiences that you haven’t told us about already?
A: Um, um. Well, let’s see.
Q: Any programs that a….
A: Oh, well, yeah, okay. Uh, for one, one thing we really enjoyed was, had what we called a May Day. That was an exciting day. Uh…
Q: Tell us about that.
A: The, one of the activities was wrapping the May pole, the flagpole. And, then we had different games, they would have, I think they used to have little baseball game. Different parents would be out. They would bring homemade ice cream and things of that nature; cakes and stuff that they would have…and, I mean, we just, just had a good day. We looked forward to every May Day.
Q: Did you have, or recall any programs, or activities, that may have been held to provide funds or monies for the school? Any activities?
A: Yeah, but one guy I know who used to have, once in a while, like quartet singers. And like the parents and all would be sponsoring this and they would have a quartet singing in it. And again, this is where the parents would donate ice cream and uh, cakes and stuff to sell to raise money, what to help, you know, do things for the school.
Q: Uh, do you recall that there was a PTA?
A: Oh, yeah, yeah, they had a PTA.
Q: And did they go by that name?
A: Yeah, well, PTA. Yeah and that was the starting of getting the first bus they had which was an old bread truck.
Q: The bus was a truck?
A: Yeah, one of those old bread trucks. --And it stayed broke down.
Q: And that was used to pick up the students that lived the furthest away?
A: Yeah, yeah, right. And right on up to where they come to the area to come to pick up those children. Yeah.
Q: And did you have parents that volunteered to drive that?
A: Uh-huh, yes they did, yeah. Yes, I remember several of them, a lot of the men couldn’t drive but those that could drive, they would take off for a hour or two and, you know, pick up and bring the children to school and, uh, and, like I said, the bus stayed, stayed broke down. Yes, indeed.
Q: Okay, do you know of any other ways that parents worked to help provide supplies or anything for the school? Uh, or was that pretty much -- pretty much covered by activities that you all had?
A: I mean, I believe, let me see, I’m trying to think. I believe some of the mothers, back years ago, would do/make something like quilts or pillowcases and stuff and would donate them if we need a program. Some of this stuff was kind of sold or auctioned off like. I mean that was something else that they had.
Q: Do you recall any other childhood memories that uh, wouldn’t necessarily have had to do with your elementary school days? Things that you know, could be something that you did on a program or things that were going on, on the farm? Just any experiences that you recall from those early, early days that you might want to tell us about, you know, something that you remember fondly from growing up?
A: Well, I know, let me see, like if some activity were going on somewhere and we would want to go, which our parents really didn’t have de money to give us, that sometime we would go out and help in the field somewhere and chop peanuts or, you know, something of that nature-and pick a few pennies up to go to different activities. That was one of the things we would do.
Q: Okay. Do you recall any experiences or anything that happened in the county over the years that you would consider to be an improvement or as far as the county is concerned?
A: Well, one thing that --okay was sure, okay one thing was-- once the transportation improved, that was one good thing because even, like I said, it started up the parents had to buy that old bread truck for school bus to have transportation which the county didn’t furnish it. So eventually the county decided to give them some buses by giving us old buses that were worn out and were still almost as bad. So this was an improvement and also, most of the books we had to use was second hand books--and hardly nobody got a new, new textbook. So that was some of the improvements.
Q: Okay. Would you give us a short, autobiographical sketch of your experiences and your life -jobs and so forth? Is it long or is it short?
A: Well, like I said, I grew up in this area. I went to, after school I went to, uh, the Army. In fact, I started working at the Luter’s Smithfield Packing. Then I was called into the Army--and after returning, I uh, went to Gwaltney from there and worked there for 41 years. I’m sure of that because, at the time, I went trying to get some jobs, and I wouldn’t have been making as much as I was making at the plant and during that period, I hadn’t been too long gotten married, gone had a wife and all to support and wanted to buy a home. So that’s what basically kept me there at the plant. Then during the period of time I done studied some night classes at P.D. Pruden, in Small Business Administration. Then I started, so I wound up my career at Gwaltney Incorporated.
Q: Is there anything else you would like to add?
A: And also, I was going to say I went, saw the light. I’ve been a member of Emmanuel Baptist Church which I have enjoyed working in service in the church through the years. I think that was the teaching and upbringing in the church made me make some of the right choices in life. I won’t say they’ve all been prosperous but at least I stayed in Virginia.
Q: Did you have anything else that you would like to add to our interview that you think of, would be of interest to kids today or anything that you think you may have left out that now you want to add to our interview about your school days?
A: Well, the one thing I, I would say uh, especially as being as a child, there’s a lot of things that happen and all in life that we may not agree with the adults upon but it pays to listen to people with experience, that have experienced things in life and if we take those things and apply ‘em to the knowledge that we have, so many times it can help you to be more successful in life and because people tell you things and you don’t always agree with it, uh, a lot of times it’s not really that bad. It’s things to help you. You don’t see it then but down the road, in years to come, you will learn that it was the best.
Q: Very good. If you have nothing else to add, then I want to thank you very much, Mr. Gray, for allowing us to uh, ask you some questions about your school days at Trinity and your uh, early days of growing up in Isle of Wight County and I really appreciate your time today.
A: Yeah, I appreciate it and I hope it will be of some use to you in the near future, not only to me but to kids, grandkids, and other kids that come on, follow behind.
Q: Thank you.
A: Hope you all the success in your endeavor.
Q: Thank you. Thank you very much.