Q: I’m with Mrs. Earnestine Gwaltney and I understand that you went to the McKinley School (McClelland). First of all we want to welcome her and get an idea of where she grew up in Isle of Wight County.
A: Okay, my name is Georgia Ernestine Holloman. I was born July the 9th 1928. My marriage name entitled Gwaltney. My address is 1447 Carroll Bridge Rd, Smithfield, Va. 23430. My phone number is 757-______. I was raised up in Isle of Wight County near Ivor at Sycamore Cross, Crossing. Number of sister and brother. 5 sister, myself makes 6 and 1 brother. School that I attend was McKinley school (McClelland), Isle of Wight Training, and also the training school of Smithfield Isle of Wight. McKinley School (McClelland), Isle of Wight Training. What grade was taught there from first to the seventh grade. And I had one grade in the high school, eighth grade. How many classroom was there? We had this one large room in the McKinley School (McClelland). Uh…from the first to the seventh grade. What year did I attend? 1934 to 1942. Who was my teacher there? My teacher was Mrs. Ernestine Brown and Mrs. Lilly May Chapman. Mrs. Ernestine Brown was from Smithfield and Mrs. Lilly May Chapman was from Carrsville, Va. How did we get to school each day? We walk from and to school.
Q: Okay, I can take it from there. Do you recall how many, how far you were from school?
A: I was from school about, I wrang one mile. I could see the school from my house from my home where I was living in, bout one mile. Cause it was straight cross a field. I could see my school in the____ of the road.
Q: Did you have any sisters and brothers?
A: I had 5 sister; myself makes 6 and 1 brother.
Q: And were they of school age? So did you wind up going to school together during some of those years?
A: Uh, I was out of the seventh grade when 2 was still in the school. But my brother, he went to Westside at that time high school all together, my brother uh huh.
Q: Did you walk to school with some of your brothers and sisters in the early grades?
A: That’s right there was 3 of us. Myself, and the second sister Gladys and the third sister was Helen Holloman.
Q: All right and do you, you said that the school had one large room?
A: One large room.
Q: Was there a cloakroom also for your coats and things?
A: That’s right. On coat hangers was on the wall for each one to hang their coat and their cap over.
Q: Was that in the one room or was that another room?
A: That was just a little inner… what’s you call it, a little inner view…a little small space that you come through the door you hang your coat then you would come into your classroom.
Q: Do you know anything about when or how your school first opened or whether they always had one room or not?
A: I won’t say on that because when I went there was just one room. Bright sunshine lights we had windows on one side of the room clean cross about seven windows clean cross and then the back was just a building. And then we enter through the door where we hang our coat up then a small room was for like had someone to come in to bring some things that we might had like a sandwich or whatever gonna fix ya know, small room for that.
Q: Did people bring in food items often or did you fix things on the stove in your building?
A: We’ll we fixed on the stove in later years after uh, I would say I was there bout fifth, sixth grade something like that. Cause our supervisor I guess that what you would call her was Mrs. Georgie Tyler from Windsor…and a lot of times she would come in with a box maybe some things that was enough for all of us like a cookie or whatever. But in later year we did have a stove back there and we could fix some things that we want, you know.
Q: Do you know how, where the food came from whether it was provided by the county or parents or some program that Ms. Tyler was involved in?
A: I think it was some program that she was involved in. because when she came to the school come to the school whatever, she would go in that little room and check the things to see was it things that she had ordered.
Q: Did you have any jobs at home that you had to do before you left for school?
A: No I didn’t do anything in the morning before I left for school but just got up and ate my breakfast and taking my bath and got ready and went to school. But the chores in the evening was when I got back was maybe to sweep the floor or scrub. Well now let me see what my chores was…
Q: Check the middle of the page there on the front page. Middle of the page, down there before and after school.
A: I don’t see it. Hmm. Anyhow we had to get in water from the well, wash the dishes and things like that after school. Then we had, after we finished that then we had to get out homework, well what we call now homework and we call it lesson at that time. We get our lesson out and then after that we might could go outside and play with rag ball or whatever for a while then come back in and take our wash up or bath up got ready go to bed. Our school out there was from 9-3 in the day.
Q: And what do you remember about the beginning of the school day in the morning before you started your subjects did you have a devotion period?
A: Yes, uh hum.
Q: What can you tell us about that?
A: Uh. Before we… after we got in everybody was seated. Our teacher would say “ Let’s stand and sing “Good Morning To You”. We are in our place with sun shining faces.” We sung that then after that we had our pledge. Then after pledge then we would have a prayer. Then we would sit down and then we get our books and we start our classes.
Q: Now what do you remember about your books and your classes?
A: Okay, alright. We had reading, the subjects that we covered was reading, spelling, math, and geography, I guess I can’t call it like that geography book um hum. That’s what we had.
Q: And at your lunch period, what would that involve? How long was it and what do you remember about your lunchtime?
A: Our lunchtime was a half an hour from 12- 12:30 and then we had our recess on the outside from 12:30-1 like playing some game or another. Pop whip, got my arm broke on that. You know things like that.
Q: You said sometimes Mrs. Tyler would bring things for you. Did you ever have something cooked on the stove like maybe a soup for the whole class?
A: Yeah that’s right. Uh huh. Sometimes we had soup for the whole class. Then they have those little pack of individual crackers and then sometimes we would make raisins biscuits they call at the time.
Q: So you said you would make them at school?
A: Yeah at school. We worked them up and made them at school and put them in the little wood stove and brown them and everybody could have some you know.
Q: That’s good some other schools they didn’t have those types of activities. Teacher or school situation was different.
A: Was different that’s right. Cause we had that. And then our heating system in school was a big iron heater burned with coal. The truck would come a bring coals and deliver them in the back and they had a shed across it. We used a coal heater in there for heating, always was very nice and warm. It never got cold in school.
Q: What can you tell us about your recess? Did you have more than one and what kind of activities did you do?
A: We, our recess was playing like I said on the outside. We had a, a, ball, a ball to play. Then we had, what you call it, dodge ball I guess at that time I can’t remember cause we didn’t have no basketball or nothing like that, no basketball goal not any. In the line so many would catch and throw and when it hit to get out stand aside till we play _______. Then we had ring games, line up your hands and you go around. Ring around the rosy. We had rings games…and here comes ducey riding, riding in to get married and whatever. All those fun games.
Q: What was your favorite?
A: My favorite game was “Here Comes Ducey Riding”. My grandson love to hear me say that. What you riding her for, riding here to get married? Then you pick your little friend and then he stand beside you then you go to the next one like that ya know.
Q: You recall any other little games or is that it?
A: Naw, we had like I told you that game that you line up, I know you don’t know anything about that. Pop whip. Pop whip. Catch you by the hand so many then you go running like that. Pop whip. I don’t know what you call it but.
Q: I didn’t have a name for it, but do I remember it.
A: I call it pop whip, pop whip. I don’t know what it was anyhow.
Q: You said…I believe you mentioned that you had one stove in your building. Was that like a pot- bellied stove?
A: Yeah, pot-bellied iron stove.
Q: That would take wood or coal?
A: Wood or coal either one. Cause we started with wood and then we just get it warm then we put the coal in it.
Q: And where did the wood and the coal come from? Did the students take care of the gathering of the wood? Where did the coal come from do you know?
A: Well we had a truck to come in and bring the wood, it was kindling wood and brought a load of coals…and put ‘em under the shed on the outside…and somehow them little boys go out there and cut up the firewood and then they had a big bucket and they brought in two of them during the day full of coal. And then when the teacher see that it had got very low then it would add more coal to the heater. That’s what we had for the next morning had enough to start the fire again and that’s way we kept it going like that.
Q: Do you know if that coal and wood was provided by the county or do you think parents were paying for that?
A: No, I think it was by the county. I think. Mr. Hall was our, what you call it
Q: Superintendent?
A: I think so at the time. Mr. Hall. I think it was Mr. Hall.
Q: Did you have indoor restrooms?
A: No outdoors. Outdoors with two seated.
Q: Separate ones for the boys and girls?
A: No, I’m talking on the lady. It was one two-seated for ladies and then one was further off for the boys.
Q: And what did you do for water during the day? Drinking water?
A: We had a big pump and everybody had a cup or glass or whatever that they could go over and pump it and get your own water. Big cement bottom with a pump in it.
Q: In the classroom, could you describe what it looked like and something about the teachers’ desk and the students’ desks?
A: Teacher’s desk was very neat at all time. During the spring of the year when the flowers were put up she would always bring a bunch of flowers to put in her vase. It was kept very neat. Had a pencil, uh I don’t know what you call it back then but anyhow I say pencil holder now that she kept all her pens and pencils in. Very neat and clean. Our desk was the same. We had a little desk that we sit on and then we had the place cross here that you put your pencil in there and up in here was something to put your books right under here. Then if you had a little book bag or something you set it beside you.
Q: How would you describe the students’ desk?
A: Very nice some of ‘em was…and if it won’t the teacher went by and said straighten it up or whatever.
Q: Made of wood?
A: Yes. Made of wood.
Q: Blackboards?
A: .Uh huh that’s right. Blackboard clean across.
Q: On one side?
A: On one side…on one side this side right over here cause this side over here was all windows. Clean cross. A, b, c to z down that end. Then you had your 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 to 20 on that end I know that.
Q: Your alphabet and numbers?
A: Um hum that’s right.
Q: Do you remember anything else being on the walls?
A: They had all different types of pictures whatever, um hum.
Q: So would that have been all of her teaching aides? Would the teacher have had anything else beside the pictures and alphabets? You recall anything else?
A: Yeah she, the walls had plenty of things that you could look at you know concerning of your classes and things like that um hum in there.
Q: And the light, the windows that took up the side where the sunlight came in.
A: Plenty of light in the daytime…and at nighttime if there was an activity or a play or something whatever we use the lamps with the oil in it. Then sometimes… later sometimes in the, later in the years they had a you call it mantel light. Plenty good light. We had different types of programs we did there and all.
Q: What do you recall of the programs that were held there?
A: The programs were held there, one of ‘em I’ll never forget…uh we had there was a (chuckle) I think they call it Magician Morning that they come through and had that black rag over there and the duck would fly over and look like it fly.
Q: Magician’s show?
A: Magician’s show. Yeah one or two of them there I know and then they had different types of programs. You know.
Q: Programs that the students participated in?
A: Yes that’s right the students participated in. We had them there too, uh huh. And myself… uh and uh… Mr. Haskey where over there, we live right together still. We were the two highest ones in school clean through…and you call it what is it, valedictorian and what you call it in high school?
Q: Salutatorian?
A: Yes that’s right. So we two was. And uh… we were standing on the floor…uh… they had a line of each one, all us seventh grade…uh… say my _______whatever standing on the floor and the one that finished would be the highest one and the one next to ‘em would be what you call it that they have in high school now. Uh…so we was standing so my cousin where was beside me, uh- he had a word, spelling word and he didn’t want to spell that because he say his mama told him not to use such word in school or whatever and he started laughing and got me so tickled. I laughed. And so Haskin where over there now I call him Haskin, Mr. Haskin and he was just hum…hum...that all he was doing. So he said “Alright Ernestine… he said spell watermelon.” I got in that floor (laugh) and I just laughed and laughed and I couldn’t I said I just can’t. I had every word just wrong every one…and he on the other side of me, you know how you can do. So he was the highest one for the seventh grade that year. Then when we finished school there, we had a beautiful program…mmm -hum… beautiful program.
Q: Tell us about the program.
A: Well we marched in…the little boys had on black pants and white shirt. We had white dresses. We marched in, everybody say their little, recited what they had to say whatever. And then after that they had me and him together like, and so they had me first and I got up and spoke my little recited what I was supposed to say and then Mr. Haskin spoke his on the end…mmm-hum. It was very good, very good. We had a good time in school back there in them days...um hum…very good.
Q: Do you recall anything else about any of the programs?
A: No, uh what they had that was good one year they had different. The little first grade did their little thing and the second grade and the third and the fourth and the fifth. All that.
Q: Do you think that was an experience, the programs and having the recitations or having a play, was an experience that some of our students should have had, you know, if they had an opportunity?
A: Yes I do, I really do. Been very nice. Um Hum. Cause it was good ya know; cause what we had in school it was just I say very good cause they made us learn more and active and whatever.
Q: More active?
A: Yes more active and everything. That’s right. And a lot of things happened in that school back in our days that I didn’t, in my age today didn’t forget…because that little reciting part I had I know half of it but the end of it I don’t know that part. At my age of today. Cause I let them know that I had finished school. That’s right.
Q: Things that have stood out in your mind over the years.
A: That’s right. Yeah so it was, it was very good. I mean them days were very good days back there then.
Q: Very good.
A: Yes it was.
Q: What do you remember about discipline in the classroom? Was it often that the teacher had to use some method of discipline or was it seldom and what type?
A: Well it was kind of seldom at times. But some time it look like, I mean the children’s kind of, you know got kind of bad or whatever at times…and our discipline was to go in the far corner and you would stand and hold one foot up for a certain length of time. Or she had a little ruler on her desk and she would tap, tap, tap and you would know what that mean. Uh huh, know what that mean. Don’t you be bad go sit down and be good the rest of the day if not I’m gonna make you stand in that corner and nobody liked to stand in the corner with their feet up, foot up.
Q: Those two methods were usually about all that was required?
A: That’s right, while I was there.
Q: Are there any other school experiences you would like to tell us about?
A: No, that was all. I went to enter into the high school there but it was just, won’t long enough for me, cause I didn’t finish the whole eighth grade. I just went in cause, I was living up in the country way up in the country and down here in Smithfield at that time the traffic, you didn’t have no convenience what so ever. But we had the mules and cart and whatever things like that you know.
Q: Was that still in Isle of Wight?
A: Isle of Wight, Isle of Wight.
Q: What area would that be now, when you say way up in the country?
A: Sycamore Crossing was the name of the place out towards Ivor, Virginia.
Q: And are there any other childhood memories you recall that wouldn’t necessarily happened at school?
A: Like what?
Q: Anything like –if you had experienced any memories of church or things happening on the farm, or anything at all before you became an adult that you would like to tell us about?
A: There in the same school that I went to we had Sunday School lesson there and went there for a long time and then service was there at my church which was Mt. Sinai which was second Sunday and fourth, but each morning around 10:30 or 11 we attend Sunday School, my uncle was the superintendent and my aunt was the teacher of Sunday school and then we walked to Sunday school and when we came back we would get the mule and cart and we’d go over to Mt. Sinai for our regular service at 2 o’clock, second Sunday and forth.
Q: Would you give us some highlights of your life, your autobiography of where you went after elementary school and what types of jobs you had?
A: Okay after I finished elementary school I started doing some working into homes like cooking and cleaning and whatever. That’s what I started doing. Uh…I uh, I didn’t do very much of that during my mother had got down with the arthritis and my father was farming and so that’s the way that was until we moved to Smithfield.
Q: You have an idea when, or what year or years that would have been approximately?
A: Hmm, we left from up there, I was in school 42. We, we left from up there and we move from the Foxes Crossing not very far down the road and we stayed there for 2 years and while I was there, after we left there I got married…and then when I got married I moved to Surry County. From Surry County, me and my husband moved to Smithfield. And when I moved to Smithfield I went to Smithfield Packing Company and went to work…and from Smithfield Packing Company, I stayed there 3 years working in the bacon room and while I was working in the bacon room I got pregnant and then I had my daughter. I didn’t go back to the packing company. I drove a school bus for 10 years…and then after I drove school bus for 10 years, my mother came, my father had passed …and then while she was there with me I went to beauty school. And from beauty school I graduated from there. I’m glad I went to high school and got that eighth grade cause if it wasn’t for that I would have never got a license and uh, cause you had to have a high school education, some parts. And so then I’ve been a beautician from that day to this day. Ms. Hall, here is my customer.
Q: One of your customers?
A: Yeah, that’s right. So that’s what I’ve been doing up to date.
Q: So you’re still working?
A: Still working. I have my own shop…my own shop at home.
Q: It’s at home?
A: Yes, at that time the County demanded you know that it be out you know…um huh… but they require for us to have our own private entrance there but you go to your living quarters…
Q: Okay…Private entrance?
A: Um hum and your bathroom.
Q: Alright is there anything you want to add?
A: No I think that’s all I can say for today.
Q: Okay well I want to thank you for coming out this morning, we appreciate your participation.