Q: We are interviewing Mrs. Marie Hargrow at Main Street Baptist Church Parsonage, this is August 9th, and we want to welcome her to our setup, first of all we would like to have an idea of where you grew up in Isle of Wight County? What area?
A: I grew up in the Longview area.
Q: Where would that be? Can you give us some landmarks?
A: Seven miles from Smithfield going out on Scott’s Factory Rd.
Q: Did you have any sisters or brothers?
A: I had no sisters but I had three brothers.
Q: What schools did they attend?
A: They attended Bridger School and the Isle of Wight Training School and Westside High.
Q: You attended what school?
A: Bridger School and Isle of Wight Training.
Q: When you attended Bridger, what grades were taught there?
A: The first through the seventh grades.
Q: How many classrooms were there?
A: Two.
Q: There were two teachers there during most of the time or all of the time?
A: Yes, there were two teachers, yes.
Q: Did you attend all seven grades there?
A: No, we lived in Baltimore and my family moved back here in 1948 and I was in the sixth grade, so I attended there the sixth and the seventh grade.
Q: Do you know what years that would have been?
A: 1948 until 1949.
Q: Who were your teachers?
A: Well, my teacher was Mrs. Willie K. Parker from Suffolk, Virginia. She had the fourth through the seventh grade and Miss Mattie B. Jordan, she was the Principal, and she had grades one through three.
Q: Did you have any information about the school, as far as when it was built or torn down or anything about the building itself?
A: No, I do not. When I left Bridger School, I went to the Isle of Wight Training School. I don’t know when the school was no longer operating. I don’t have any information regarding that.
Q: When you attended school, how far was it away from your home?
A: Let me see, I guess maybe about, maybe ten miles. I’m not sure. I would say approximately about ten miles.
Q: From your home?
A: Yes.
Q: How did you get to and from school?
A: On the school bus.
Q: The school bus was provided by the county?
A: Yes, yes, I was picked up. My brothers and I were picked up at home and we were taken to the school and returned in the same manner.
Q: Before you went to school, did you have jobs to do at home?
A: No, because the main focus was on my getting to school so I had to get up and get dressed, get my breakfast and be ready to catch the school bus…and then sometimes, I did have to get my younger brother to the babysitter.
Q: When you did arrive at school, were there chores to be done before school started?
A: Well, the only thing, I can’t remember, but I remember we had a potbelly stove so apparently the boys had to make a fire and I know there wasn’t, we didn’t have indoor facilities. We had a cloak room with a water pail so I’m thinking that, you know, someone would had to get the water but other than that, I can’t remember. I can’t remember any chores that, that we had to do at school.
Q: How did the day start?
A: Now, if I remember correctly, I think we started with devotion- a song and prayer, The Lord’s Prayer and maybe the 23rd psalm or the 100th psalm or bible verses and a Pledge Allegiance to the flag. I remember, I can’t remember too much of devotion at that school, but are you also focusing on my days at the Training School, also?
Q: No.
A: You just want the county school, right now? Okay, but I can’t remember too much, but I believe that we started, opened with a song, The Lord’s Prayer, because at that time, you know, we could recite The Lord’s Prayer at school. And either the 23rd psalm, the 100th psalm and bible verses and Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. If I remember correctly, I believe, that’s how the school day started.
Q: What do you recall about the subjects that you had; any specifics about any text books that stand out in your mind?
A: Okay, we had okay, language, arithmetic, geography and spelling, and I’m sure reading, and with the books, we had to purchase our own books. So they were, that was the material that we used, the books that we purchased.
Q: How long was your school day?
A: If I remember correctly, I think maybe from around nine until three, I believe. We probably got there before nine because, mind you, the bus that dropped us off was going on to the training school, so I’m sure we got there, we did get there early. So if school started at nine, we got there prior to nine. School was over at three and we had to wait for the bus to come and pick us up. So really I would say the school day ran from nine until three.
Q: Any memories of the activities that you did before school or after school while you were waiting for the bus? Anything that may have happened or, you know, did you just play, play outside or whatever until the bus came?
A: Yeah, that’s what we did, we just, I think at the end of the day, I think maybe what the classroom and yes, that’s what we did, we, we played outside. You know, until the bus came to pick us up.
Q: What do you recall about the lunch period?
A: Lunch period, oh, okay. Well see, Mrs. Parker had the fourth to the seventh grade and so by the time she got to all the classes, it was lunchtime. She would start with the seventh grade and each class had about six or seven children and she would start with the seventh grade and she would teach the lesson and then she would give us our written assignment. Then she would go to the sixth grade. She would do the same thing there. She would go to the fifth grade. She would do the same thing there and she would go to the fourth grade and she would do the same thing there. Well, by the time she got around to all the classes, it was lunch time. So we ate our lunch in the classroom and after eating lunch, Mrs. Parker would go and have lunch with Miss Mattie. So we ate our lunch in the classroom and then after eating lunch, we went out to play; that was recess. We didn’t have another recess period during the day. That was incorporated with the lunch period. So after we finished eating lunch, we ate outside. Then we could go outside and play and went to the bathroom because it wasn’t going to the bathroom all day long. You know, I can’t recall the students interrupting the teacher to ask permission to go out. We did everything at lunch time, we ate our lunch, we played and we went to the bathroom, got some water, and if there were any discipline problems, we would take it to the two teachers.
Q: You mentioned that your teacher would take each grade to instruct them. What were the other groups doing while she was concentrating on that grade?
A: Well, she had work for them to do. Whenever she was working with, if she was working with the seventh grade, the sixth grade had their work to do. We were always, there was no idle time. Each class was always kept busy. If she was busy with another class, she made sure that the other class had work to do; so then five times that we were in school, we were a working group.
Q: Having all these grades in one class, how was discipline dealt with at that time?
A: Well, you know, she would speak; the teacher would speak to the students. You know, if she was teaching a class and there was a student that was unruly, she would speak to the class; but also at that time, they had corporal punishment and I know Mrs. Parker would send one of the students outside to get them whipped. And she would take, if you were really unruly and your behavior warranted further discipline, Mrs. Parker had that switch and that switch-hit you and that switch would wrap around you. I didn’t see that happen too often because most of the time, you know, she could speak to the children and you know, whatever they were doing, that would correct the discipline problem.
Q: Now getting to the building itself, did it have two classrooms? Were both rooms basically identical in size?
A: Yes, uh-huh, I think, yes, they were identical, yes.
Q: How would you describe one room?
A: It was big and with seven, six or seven children in each class and she had maybe thirty to thirty-five children. It was a big room. It had windows and a potbelly stove and we had wooden desks. Like the seventh grade, they had desks side by side. They had two rows. The sixth grade, they had two rows. The fifth grade, they had two rows and the fourth grade, they had two rows. We had a, we had a cloakroom and in the cloakroom, the water pail was kept and, I believe, the coats were kept in there.
Q: Each classroom had a cloak room?
A: No, we had one cloakroom. Everybody used the one cloakroom.
Q: The pot belly stove took care of the heat?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you do for water?
A: Water, I believe, if I recall, there, I can’t remember too well, but I’m sure there must have been a pump outside because we did have water…and there was a water pail with the dipper. Now I don’t recall any cups or anything. I don’t even recall getting water, but if there were no cups, it appeared, I’m saying this because I can’t remember too much but if there was only one water pail and a dipper, I just assumed that everybody was drinking, using that dipper, you know, to drink the water but as I said, I can’t remember. I don’t even remember drinking water at school so, you know, I’m thinking, based on what I can remember.
Q: Was there one side of the building with windows or were there windows elsewhere?
A: Yes, over to the left there were the windows, because when you came in the classroom, you entered from the right and so the classrooms were over on the left.
Q: The windows were on the left and the chalkboard?
A: Yes, that was the windows. The blackboard, okay, the window, when you came in, this was, you know, the door, you came in, you entered the classroom. The windows were over on that side where the wall is and the blackboard was up front.
Q: And the stove?
A: The stove was over in the corner where the curtains and chairs were.
Q: The teacher’s desk, how would you describe it?
A: Now you know, I know there was a teacher’s desk but you know I can’t remember anything about the teacher’s desk. I cannot remember anything about the teacher’s desk but I know the teacher had a desk but it’s just that I can’t recall anything.
Q: Do you recall anything being, any aides or anything being on the wall?
A: No, I don’t recall that either. Now I’m not saying that there wasn’t anything but now, you got to remember it was back in the 40’s. I’m not saying that there wasn’t anything, I don’t recall.
Q: Do you have any positive memories of school, the teachers or students, anything that stands out as far as things that you really enjoyed; pleasant memories for you?
A: Well, one thing, we had dedicated teachers. The teachers were dedicated teachers and Miss Mattie, Miss Mattie taught my mom. Miss Mattie taught my mom and I’m a elaborate a little further on that and then when I got there Miss Mattie was still teaching school but not me, because see, I was in the sixth grade so she had the first and third grade. Miss Mattie was a petite, immaculate, very neat lady. Miss Mattie had a 37 or 38 Chevrolet and I understand that Miss Mattie’s father used to drive her to school on a horse and cart, so that must have been when my mother was going to school. But we were a close knit family; sharing and caring for one another. Very close knit because, mind you, the children at that school all came, you know, from neighborhoods, you know, that were closely connected and really a close knit family. Sharing and caring for one another and if there were children that were less fortunate then we, didn’t have lunch, we would share our lunch with them. It was just; it was a close-knit family. Mrs. Parker was the other teacher and Mrs. Parker was stern now. She didn’t take no stuff, you know. And so, I just like the, the, the closeness of the family and, mind you, see I had came; that was a drastic change for me because I had came from a big city school. Now my school that I came from had three floors. We had a cafeteria, hot lunches; we had a auditorium, indoor, you know, bathroom, water fountains. So this was definitely a change for me, but you know, I adjusted and I adapted very well, not begrudgingly. I had no regrets. I just went in and it was quite an experience, and if I, I had no regrets, if I had to do it over again, I would do it again. Never did I once, it didn’t even enter my mind, you know, I’m so sorry I came to this little ole country school. I left my big school in the city. That sort never entered my mind. I went to that school for a year. I adapted. I adjusted well and due to the non-modern facilities, it did not have an impact on the education. I received a quality education there. When we got to the training school, we were shoulder to shoulder with the other eighth graders. Miss Butler had the seventh grade over at the training school, so her seventh graders went on to the eighth grade with us. When we got to the training school, we were shoulder to shoulder with the, the, the eighth graders that were, you know, from the training school and also the eighth graders from the other surrounding schools. So, you know, people say your environment can have ah-ah impact, you know, maybe on your learning or that sort of thing, but having non-modern facilities had no impact on learning. I think even if I had gone, stayed in my city school, I would have, could not have received a better education than I received that year in the county school.
Q: It was probably good, also, that you had very small groups in your classroom; that you were really getting a lot of individual attention.
A: Yes, Yes.
Q: Did you have any negative memories that, about that year?
A: No, because, as I said, no, I have no negative memories. I had no regrets. I wasn’t begrudging that my parents moved from the city to the country and I had to go to this country school and no way was the quality of the education diminished. As I said before, we were one big family, loving and caring. We had dedicated teachers and I was happy that I was able to have that experience and if I had to do it again, I would. I’m grateful for that experience.
Q: Very good. Are there any other school experiences that you may not have covered that you would like to tell us about?
A: Well, I want to talk about my parents a little bit. My parents were big on education. I graduated from high school when I was sixteen; I wanted to bring that up, but my parents were big on education. My father had very little education and it was his desire that his children would receive an education. The three of us went to college. My dad’s father died when he was four so he had to work to help his mother, but he thought education was one of the biggest, greatest assets to have an education and that’s what he wanted for his children. So when they moved to Baltimore, my father and his cousin, his cousin was from down here too. When they moved to Baltimore, he went to night school, he and his cousin went to night school and my dad said everybody knew a little something for him, so, you know, he felt bad and he, he dropped out. But his cousin stuck with it and he got his diploma for electrician. So uh, but anyway, that was, that was what my father wanted and he always wanted me to be a teacher. That’s what he instilled in me. He wanted me to be a teacher. When I left Isle of Wight Training, I went to Virginia State and I majored in business and I got my first job at the naval base. I pursued a federal career and my dad just wanted me to be a teacher. So I retired from the federal government in 1992. So I pursued a second career which I went to work in the Baltimore city public school system as a substitute teacher for ten years and I just retired from that position in January. So I was able to tell my father that I was teaching school and that his dream had been fulfilled. He wanted to know what grades I was teaching and I said, “The first to the eighth grades” and he said, “Oh”, he said, “You teaching at the high grades.” So then, he worked on my daughter. He said, “Oh, she would make a nice little teacher. She would make a nice little teacher.” So my daughter, she graduated from college, but she also pursued a federal career but she’s still working and who knows, her second career might be teaching. And uh, then uh, my father, I just had a, a nephew to graduate from Smithfield High and he’s going into reserves, and he plans to study at Hampton University, criminal justice and he wants to be either an army officer or a civilian investigator. We have three, three children, three that are in high school now and two will graduate next year and two that are in elementary school. So his legacy still lives on, of course, education for his family. Now my mom, my mom was big on education, too. Now my mom and her family lived in the rural area and she completed the seventh grade. Miss Mattie Jordan, as I said Miss Mattie was my mom’s teacher. Well then, when you finished the seventh grade, the high school was in Smithfield and their only mode of transportation was the horse and cart. Now some of the students knew someone in Smithfield or they were able to board in Smithfield during the week with someone that they knew, but apparently my mom and her family didn’t know anybody. So my mother still wanting to, you know, continue her education, she went to the seventh grade a second time and the second time she was in the seventh grade, Miss Mattie had her helping the other students. Well, when they moved to Baltimore, my mother furthered her education at Dunbar High School. So my parents were big on education and the legacy for their offspring, the grandchildren, lived on because we still had children in school; still receiving an education and the two that will graduate from high school next year anticipate college. So their legacy lives on.
Q: Do you have anything in addition that you would like to add about either your highlights of your life or childhood memories that you have not covered?
A: Well, as I said, I graduated from high school when I was sixteen. I was an avid reader, always like to read. I read everything I could get my hands on. When I left the Training School, I went on to Virginia State College and I got my first job at the naval base. I met my husband there and married. I had two children and then after separation, I moved back to Baltimore and I pursued my federal career worked in internal revenue for ____________, the Pentagon and Fort Meade. I retired from Fort Meade in 1992. In my thirst to continue my education, I went to Morgan State University in Baltimore, The John Hopkins University in Baltimore and also the Baltimore City Community College. After I retired from Fort Meade, I pursued my second career as a substitute teacher in the Baltimore City Public Schools. I retired from there in January. Now I am fully retired. I’m active in church work, community work, volunteer work, NARFE (National Association of Retired Federal Employees), volunteering, grand parenting and traveling. I have two adult children and I have two granddaughters, and all glory, honor and praise go to my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Had it not been for him, this would not have been possible.
Q: Mrs. Hargrow, thank you very much. We have completed our interview session and I really appreciate you coming out today and giving us your history and your background. Thank you very much.
A: Okay and it was a pleasure.