Q: Today is Saturday, May 3rd and we’re at Chapel Grove United Church of Christ and we have with us today, Mrs. Bessie Harrison. Mrs. Harrison, first of all, would you tell us when you were born and the area of the county that you grew up in.
A: I was born May 9, 1936. I grew up in the same little town less than a mile away from where I was born. I live right here now in the town of Windsor.
Q: Okay. And did you have sisters and brothers, and if so, what schools did they attend?
A: I had one brother who was killed in 1962. He also went to school here in Windsor, which was called “Sugar Hill”.
Q: All right. And when you went to Sugar Hill, what grades were taught there?
A: It was preprimer through the seventh grade.
Q: And did you go to all the grades there?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: All right. And how many classrooms were there?
A: It was two classrooms and a cafeteria. Our principal, Mr. Lowe was the principal, but I can’t remember where his office was.
Q: Okay. And this was – you said there were two rooms –
A: Two classrooms.
Q: Two classrooms, so he had one room and who was the teacher?
A: Mrs. Ethel Joyner was the primary teacher. And then Mrs. Lillian Parker was the upper class person.
Q: Okay.
A: I don’t think that Mr. Lowe stayed but one year after Mrs. Parker came. She was Mrs. Parker when she taught me. Later she became Mrs. Holman. I think she took over as sort of like the head person after Mr. Lowe left.
Q: Okay. And what years are you talking about now, the first years that you went there?
A: I – evidently I started to school in September of 1941. September 1941; I should have been six years old.
Q: Okay.
A: ’42, maybe. 1942. And I finished there in May of 1949.
Q: During those years that you were there, were there any changes in teachers or did those same teachers –
A: Those same teacher were there when I got there and they were there when I left. And they stayed there until we moved across the street. They stayed there until they retired.
Q: Okay. Do you know of any of the history of Sugar Hill School?
A: Not really. Other than I remember that it was owned by Uncle Eddie White’s farm; it was a little small building. And it was just there. I remember he did a lot of the work and everything, you know, to make sure everything was going right in the county, but other than –
Q: Do you know if he owned the building or do you think the county –
A: I believe Uncle Eddie owned the building, because later on after he passed, I notice his son, Carinlus White, he sold that land to somebody in the back.
Q: Do you know if the son – even though he owned the building, do you feel the county paid the teachers?
A: Yes. I definitely believe that.
Q: Okay. When you were going there, how far away was your home?
A: When I started to school we must have been about a mile and a half away from the school. – to be very honest, when I was small, I never really remember walking to school. I guess my daddy must have carried me to school every morning when I was small, like in preprimer. I don’t remember walking to school down or from 258, little farther than where I am now. I never remember walking to school. But when we did move up here where I am now, we used to walk to school; we used to walk to school and back.
Q: And back. Did you have any jobs to do at home before you left for school?
A: Oh, yes; yes, yes, yes. My mother would get up in the morning, made your bed up; you had to make your bed up and, of course, she was a one family, so she cooked breakfast like 4:30 in the morning and left it on the stove. So she called us, little W.T.and I, before she left, to get up, eat your breakfast, and make sure your bed was made up before you came downstairs, come downstairs and eat your breakfast; don’t leave no dirty dishes and make sure the kitchen is clean before you go to school.
Q: Now, once you got to school, did you have jobs to do there?
A: At school?
Q: Uh-huh.
A: I don’t remember doing any jobs at school.
Q: Okay. What about the boys, did any of the boys have jobs?
A: They had to make the fire, because it was an old – what do you call them?
Q: Pot-bellied stove?
A: Pot-bellied stove that sat in the middle of the floor. And they’d go out in the woods and get the wood and chop that and bring it back…and make sure the fire was going. And that had to be done. A lot of times we had to wait until that fire would get up to warm up the building.
Q: On the warm days did you play a lot outside until it was time for school to start or did you go right in?
A: Oh, yes. You had to play because a lot of us got to school before the teacher sometimes. And I used to go to my uncle’s house and if we were cold, we’d just go over to Uncle Eddie’s house. And Aunt Middy was always out there watching out for us.
Q: Did your – how did your teachers get to school?
A: Well, Mrs. Joyner, see, she lived at the Joyner’s, when she was a Copeland when she first came here. Ethel Copeland she was when she first came. So she had a room at Mrs. Joyner’s. She when she came out of that lane, that Joyner’s Lane, she would just walk to school mornings.
Q: Okay.
A: And get there. Mrs. Parker, she was coming from Suffolk and she used to come on the Greyhound Bus until later in years she learned to drive. And then she got her a brand new Chevrolet –
Q: All right. How did your day start?
A: We always first thing in the morning had devotion, we – sang a song and we did the pledge. Then one or two days we read verses from the Bible, and some days we would do Bible verses. And – learned the Lord’s Prayer was always prayed every morning. And that’s out of the school now, but I think a lot of kids, and especially those that did not go to church, everybody knew the 23rd Palms and the Lord’s Prayer, because you learned it in school. Sure.
Q: What were your subjects, and do you recall any of your textbooks?
A: I can’t recall any textbooks, but we had like Virginia History in the fourth grade; I remember that very well. Who invented the cotton gin; that came up one day in history class. We had the history, math; everything that you had, regular classes.
Q: Any other particular memories about any of your classes or subject material or anything that you – that stands out in your mind?
A: I remember that, at that time you had to come to school well prepared for your work; if you didn’t, the teacher carried you out in the hall and gave you a spanking and you went back in there, and they had that long switch, and go back in there and do what you were supposed to do. And then when we first started to school they had – my Aunt Gladys, she worked there and she used to fix us hot soup, sometimes for lunch, no big lunches-soup and some kind of sandwich or something. She worked there and fixed lunch. That was just about it.
Q: What time did school start and end?
A: I am not definite, but I believe it must have been nine o’clock; nine o’clock.
Q: Nine to three?
A: Nine to three.
Q: And the school year?
A: Ran from September, after Labor Day, until the end of May. You always got out of school by the end of May.
Q: Well, can you tell us about the lunch period.
A: It was fun; we had a lot of fun. We would bring bag lunches, sandwiches, some people bought a sweet potato for lunch and whatever they had and a biscuit. Folks exchanged lunches. Then later on before I finished elementary school, Hyde Joyner opened this little restaurant, little bottom place. And Mrs. Ethel Joyner used to let us go down there and get ice cream cones, used to call them chocolate something that we would get ________ buy them and bring them back to school and everybody would have their little money, those that had money, and we would go there and get nabs and sodas, grape pets was the thing at that time, it was kind of a soda. We had an extended lunch…and we would go outside for recess. Oh, it was – had a good time; it was no season; it was a hill…and that snow would come; of course, it doesn’t snow now like it used to snow. And we would get out there and slide, slide.
Q: That was over to the side…
A: I don’t know whether you remember the little, you don’t even remember that, okay.
Q: I remember the school, I don’t –
A: You don’t remember the two-room school – you do?
Q: Uh-huh. I don’t – it wasn’t a school, the building was –
A: Was still there.
Q: Right.
A: We had a hill and the kids used to go an slide down that hill when ice was on it, you know, after you go back to school, and have the biggest time.. And then I remember one other thing that was really unique. At the end of World War II, it must have been somewhere like in ’45, ’46; you know what it was? They had a hole or something out there on the side and if certain whistles or something would come on, they would take all of us out and we would go down into this.
Q: Dugout area?
A: Yes.
Q: And it was near the school building?
A: It was like in the edge of the woods that was over there where we used to go.
Q: That’s the first I’ve heard of that. Do you recall anything else unusual or different that you think of during the school time, now?
A: I think that is about the only thing, because I thought about that many, many times since then. I guess that was – they were teaching us just in case a bomb threat or something would come where we would go into this little place.
Q: Okay. What will you tell us about your recess, what did you do for recess and –
A: Played, played ball; we just played together. Everybody had different friends who we would play with. We would – different people would go different places. Somebody would just stand there and look around, you know, people were not able to, you have, have friends or something like that, stand to themselves. Most of us would be playing softball and baseball. But one unique thing about it; at that time they would separate boys played on one side, girls played on the other side.
Q: Okay. And what about the – your water supply; where was it?
A: I cannot remember no pump or no well. I remember anything we needed, we used to go to Aunt Middy house to pick up, you know, water, or cooking something at school, go and borrow a pot, a big spoon or something. I don’t remember a well.
Q: Do you think she had a pump?
A: Oh, I know she did.
Q: You would go over there and get water and –
A: Get water. I believe that’s where we got the water from. I believe that’s where we got it.
Q: Do you recall if you maybe got a large container of water and took –
A: We had what they call a water bucket, is that right, and a dipper in it. And that’s how we used to – but I don’t remember unless we had to bring a cup or something from home. I don’t remember.
Q: Some children brought a jar of water from home.
A: I don’t remember ever bringing any water.
Q: Okay.
A: Outside toilet maybe-oh, I guess about two or three hundred feet away from the school, used to go down there to use the toilet. I don’t remember – I know we didn’t have no electric lights. I know that.
Q: So you had – you used the light from the windows or something. Did that building have a lot of windows on one side? Some buildings had, one side would take up – would be almost all windows.
A: I don’t remember the windows on the side, but I dreamed about the windows that was on the front, because I remember they were kind of long windows, like, you know.
Q: Usually be on one side would be just about all windows; that’s probably what you were thinking about. All the light would come in on the side that – on that side.
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. How would you describe your classroom in the building or what was in there besides the windows and –
A: I remember it was a blackboard in there; and it was really a blackboard at that time, because it was really black; they didn’t have the green boards that we used to have, and I remember that they would be washed practically every day. And I don’t Mrs. Joyner doing as much blackboard work as Mrs. Parker. Mrs. Parker had – she had fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh grade…and when she was working with one grade, she would put stuff on the board for us to be working, assigned papers. But she always kept a lot of work on the board, because that’s what we had to do. I don’t remember a lot of chalk and things like that being on the board, I just remember a lot of blackboard work.
Q: Okay. You mentioned earlier a pot-bellied stove; was there anything else in the room besides the students’ desks and the teacher’s desk, the stove, chalkboard, and the windows?
A: I can’t remember anything else.
Q: Do you, can you visualize any teaching materials on the walls?
A: I can’t recall; it could have been. But I do remember one thing, that every year, every other year, I think it was when the president was elected, we would get new books, but they were not new, they would come from Windsor, whether it was Windsor High School and Windsor Elementary School all put together, we would get the books as the other group, Caucasians, children would finish, then we would get them.
Q: Second-hand books.
A: That’s right. We never got the new ones. And then later on we started buying books and when we would buy books, you remember the school board office right here in Windsor by the railroad track.
Q: Um-hm. That little building.
A: That little building, because Mr. Hall was superintendent at that time. We would get our books, but our ______ books were running _______ after that. But all the new books and everything before, we would get second-hand books. Thank God for them too, because people came a long ways with them.
Q: What was discipline and punishment like in the classroom?
A: well, Mrs. Joyner – I never remember Mrs. Joyner really having to get really bad with nobody, you know; really disciplined nobody really strong. I really don’t. She was always so soft-spoken. I don’t remember anything. But I know Mrs. Parker, now, she brought a whip in there and you better not do certain things. But she was strong, she was strong willed. And, of course, she was in my family too. I guess she’d get me because she knew, all she had to do was stop by the house and tell momma about it and she knew I was going to get another one too, so.
Q: So you had to be extra careful.
A: Yes. But I was always Mrs. Joyner’s little darling. I liked to go home with her; she wasn’t married. She lived in Nansemond County at Corinth Chapel. About every weekend she went home, just about. I used to go with her at least twice a month I used to go home with her. I always saw her as very easy… She used to be on my mind so much.
Q: What are some other positive memories of your school days, your teachers and students, or classmates?
A: Well, I think I got more – in fact I know I do, positive things to say, because most of the people in my grade, in my classroom with me, or in the same grade that I was in, it was people that I met here at Chapel Grove Sunday morning for all the different little things that came along, they were my friends that I met here in church. And we did a lot of good things together. At that time school wasn’t providing a lot of extracurricular activities, but the church took it up. And we did a lot of things right here, so I think where the things that the school did not have to provide for us, I think the community and the church, at that time it was in the –
Q: It took up what was missing?
A: Yes. I’m just talking too long.
Q: Did you have any negative memories that you want, would like to tell us about?
A: One negative. We used to be walking to school. It’s funny now, but it wasn’t then. And we, a busload of white kids was passing, bus be loaded down. And they’d let their window down and spu---- and spit on us.
Q: They seemed to do that quite a bit.
A: Oh, you’ve heard of that before?
Q: Uh-huh.
A: My son, he said--- what did you-all do? And I’d say-it’s nothing for us to do, - we saw the bus coming and we’d try to get somewhere else so they wouldn’t spit on us, or run. But that’s what they used to do. It’s funny, but I all of that made us what we are today…and God had another plan for us. Dr. Martin Luther King came along; you know those days have passed.
Q: I’ve heard it was either that or____ the other.
A: I did.
Q: Are there any other school experiences that you would like to tell us about.
A: Well, of course, you know I left Windsor and went on to Smithfield, which at that time it Isle of Wight County Training School. And I graduated from there in 1954…and then I left there and went to Saint Paul College for one year and then from there to Norfolk State, Norfolk State University. And I graduated from there. And I had 34 years of experience with teaching from the state school to Newport News Public School is where I retired from…and, of course, during my teaching years I went to University of Virginia, because I had to be endorsed for teaching mentally handicapped. And that was the only school in the State of Virginia who had a program to endorse teachers to teach mentally handicapped children, so that was a very great experience. I was at University of Virginia when it first began to integrate, so that was a very pretty experience for me. I would do it all over again if I had it to do, or if I had to go to school in Windsor again and live in the type of community that I had, I would still prefer – well, I like Windsor and the county did the best they could do for me at that time. But thank God it was other things that was ahead of me to be done…and good people motivated me to be where I went on to school. And that includes your momma and your daddy. They were good pillows for this county and I really appreciate them a lot. And God bless you; you’re doing the work that your parents would want you to do.
Q: Well, thank you. Are there any other highlights? (side 1 ends)
A: Orientated person. I love people and I think a lot of that came from the kind of home life that I had growing up. So, yes, it’s been an experience. I love to be involved, from my sorority to my Negro business and professional women’s club, Incorporated, that I belong to. I like to give back. This is life and what you put in is what you get out.
Q: Would you like to add anything else?
A: Finished.
Q: Thank you very much for coming in for your interview and I appreciate your giving of your time as a service person to help us to prolong and keep the history of our background and where we’ve had to come from in order to make a success in life. Thank you very much.
A: Thank you.