Today is Tuesday August 12 and we’re in Carrsville at Pulaski Baptist Church and we’re interviewing first, Mr. Jestin Holland.
Q: Can you tell me about the area you grew up in? Was this the same Carrsville area?
A: This is the same Carrsville, Virginia.
Q: Do you have sisters and brothers?
A: I have one deceased brother, one year old than I, and I’ve got two younger sisters.
Q: What elementary schools did they attend?
A: They attended Georgie Tyler.
Q: They didn’t attend Carrsville?
A: Carrsville, no.
Q: When you went to Carrsville what grade did you start in?
A: I started in the first grade.
Q: And that would have been about what year?
A: 1943
Q: When you attended Carrsville, how many grades were taught there?
A: It was taught from the first to the seventh grade.
Q: How many classrooms were there?
A: There were two classrooms.
Q: Were both classrooms used?
A: Both classrooms were being used.
Q: Were there two teachers?
A: Two teachers, Miss Catherine Chapman and Mrs. Coma P. Walden.
Q: Do you have any knowledge of the school building itself as to when it was opened or closed?
A: I don’t have any knowledge of that.
Q: As far as you know, did it always have two rooms?
A: Always had two rooms.
Q: Do you know if the county started that school or if it was church started or anything?
A: I think it was county started.
Q: During those elementary grades, 1-7, how far did you live from Carrsville School?
A: I was right in Carrsville, three blocks from the school.
Q: So you didn’t have far to go; you walked to school, I assume.
A: Yes, I walked.
Q: Do you recall any experiences on your way to school and back, anything, or any people or classmates or things that may have happened that were interesting?
A: I lived in Carrsville for a while; then we moved out of Carrsville about two miles out, and we had to walk about two miles the last two years of school. I noticed buses would pass, but we couldn’t ride on the bus. Busses were reserved for white kids. So we walked about two miles my last two years I think.
Q: Any experiences while you were walking to school that were pleasant or unpleasant?
A: Rain when it was bad was unpleasant, snow and rain. (laughs) You had to go.
Q: Did you attend school most of the school year or were your parents farmers or did they keep you out of school any?
A: I stayed in school.
Q: Before you left for school, did you have jobs you had to do at home?
A: Yes, I had to get wood in the morning and make a fire. When I came home from school in the evening I had to make sure I had the wood in the house. I would cut the wood and get the wood in.
Q: When you arrived at school, did you have chores to do there?
A: No, I never had chores to do at school. A lot of them did, but I didn’t.
Q: What were some of the things that some of the other students had to do?
A: They had to make fires and make sure that the building warm. They would have to get there earlier, the larger kids would.
Q: Now once you got to school, did you go right in or did you have to play outside until?
A: No, most of the time we went right in.
Q: How did the teacher begin her school day?
A: We would have devotions first.
Q: Tell me about devotions.
A: (laughs) You know it was reciting the Lord’s Prayer and things like that. That was before they took prayer out of the school.
Q: Did you have to say verses, individual verses?
A: Sometimes. We used to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag too. We would always do that; we would stand up. There was something else I can’t think we used to do. We used to recite something. I can’t think what it was. I know we did the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.
Q: What can you tell me about the subjects that you had or any books that you recall?
A: In the first grade we had what was called the Pre-Primer. If you learned that and did good in the Pre-Primer, you passed to the Day Primer, the second half of the season. I don’t know why that was.
Q: That was the way it was done in those days.
A: If you didn’t pass, you stayed in, if you didn’t move fast enough.
Q: Do you recall any other books that you had or subjects that stand out in your mind?
A: We used to have spelling, I know. You had to study words out of the speller and at the end of the week they would get everybody to stand up give a spelling bee. It wasn’t all the time, but most of the time to see who was the best speller. I didn’t never stay up to the last.
Q: But you stayed up there for a while.
A: For a while. (laughs)
Q: Do you remember what time you started school in the morning?
A: I think it was nine o’clock. I’m not sure.
Q: Probably lasted until 3:00?
A: Three, 9 to 3.
Q: What do you recall about the lunch hour or lunch period?
A: Recess they called it. You were allowed to go outside and play outside. When recess was over, you’d know because the teacher would come to the door and ring the bell. You couldn’t stay away cause you’d better hear that bell.
Q: Did you eat lunch in the building and then come outside?
A: No, we would take our lunch outside, anywhere. The only lunch you got you had to take.
Q: But you could take it outside?
A: You could take it outside. Go to the store and buy you a soda. If you had money and didn’t bring lunch, you could always go to the store. We lived close to the store. A lot of kids went to the store.
Q: In those days you could go to the store?
A: Things were so cheap,yeah, you can go to the store.
Q: Do you have any other memories of recess since that was combined with lunch, things that you did, games that you played?
A: Most of the time at recess we played baseball. I mean hardball, and the girls played with us a lot of the time. So girls have been playing baseball for a long time. (laughs) I mean hardball.
Q: When you say hardball, you talking about a regular size baseball?
A: Yeah
Q: I remember the softball days.
A: Yeah, but this was baseball. They wanted to play and they would get in there and play too.
Q: What did your classroom look like, the building inside? What can you tell us about that?
A: The building inside had a desk that the teacher sat at, rows of little desks you would put your books in.
Q: Your books went in the side?
A: Yeah. Had a big coal heater sitting in a corner for the fire.
Q: Was that like a potbellied stove?
A: Potbellied stove.
Q: Did she ever fix any foods on the stove?
A: No, not to my knowledge.
Q: Now that supplied all of your heat? Were both classrooms the same?
A: Yes, and a door we could leave from one classroom and go outside. But the school itself actually had two doors, entrances. You could enter on this side or you could enter on that side. But if you entered on one side, once you got inside, you had another door you could go over to the other teacher’s room. But you had to get permission from your teacher. You had to have a good reason to go over there. (laughs) You just couldn’t walk over there.
Q: You mentioned Mrs. Walden and Miss Chapman. Which one taught the lower grades?
A: Miss Chapman taught the lower grades, and Miss Walden taught the higher grades. Miss Chapman taught to the third grade and Mrs. Walden taught from fourth to seventh. So each of them had about three classes.
Q: Was there a cloakroom or a place for you to hang your coats and hats?
A: We had a hall when you came in, vestibule. Had a closet in the vestibule where you would hang your hats. When you entered in, you entered through a vestibule and it had a closet. You could hang all your wraps in that closet.
Q: That one area handled the coats and everything for both classes?
A: Yes, all the classes. Both sides were the same.
Q: What did you do about water, drinking water.
A: We had a, we didn’t have a cooler, but we had something, we had a pump too. We had a pump outside you could go to the pump and pump water.
Q: Did you ever bring water in the building to drink?
A: We had it in the vestibule, that was where the water was. It was in something.
Q: It was in some kind of container.
A: Yeah. If you was outside, you could pump it. We had a big pump out there in cement. I will never forget it.
Q: The outside of the building you had two entrances, in between the two doors was that all windows or was it solid?
A: That was solid. The windows were on the front and windows on the side, but no windows where you could see in the back. That was where the playground was in the back. (laughs)
Q: Ok, no windows in the back, but they were in the front and sides. How would you describe punishment and discipline? How was that handled?
A: That was handled well because they didn’t really discipline. There wasn’t a whole lot of cutting up in school like now. They could beat you then. You didn’t have a whole lot of cutting up. Every once in a while you might have some cutting up, but it was really disciplined.
Q: What type of punishment would be given?
A: They would make you stand up in the corner or stand up before the class. Sometimes they would paddle you, hit you in the hand, give you some licks in the hand.
Q: Do you have any positive memories of our school days, any teachers or students that you want to tell us about, things that you liked.
A: Most of the students lived in the neighborhood and everybody was friends. We had very few fights. Everybody knows each other; everybody grew up together in the same neighborhood. Everybody knew each other’s momma and daddy, so I think that helped a lot; kept things down.
Q: Then if there was problem, it would carry over into the community in that they would help take care of it.
A: That’s right. They would tell your parents. I played hooky one day and it got back to my Daddy. He knew before I got home. One day and that was it. I got a beating for that.
Q: Very good! Instant cell phone.
A: That’s right
Q: Are there any negative memories that you remember about school or the teachers or students, anything you didn’t like?
A: I liked school. The reason I finished high school is I liked school.
Q: Are there any additional school experiences you would like to tell us about? Anything that you missed, any experience that was helpful or comical or anything at all?
A: No, not really.
Q: After you finished at Carrsville, you said you went to … ?
A: Georgie Tyler.
Q: Then in high school?
A: Isle of Wight.
Q: Isle of Wight Training School. After you finished school, could you give us the highlights of your life up to this point, jobs you had, family, marriage?
A: In high school I started working for Tidewater Construction Company: that was a hard job. I left there and went to Newport News Shipyard. I was a first class mechanic there, but I left because they didn’t have no benefits. I got a job as a longshoreman.
Q: What years would that have been?
A: I left the shipyard in 1969 and became a longshoreman, and I stayed there for 33 years and I retired from that. That was one of the best jobs I ever had. I was making $24.50 an hour when I retired, working seven days and seven nights if you wanted to. (laughs)
Q: Did you want to tell us about family or anything else as far as giving us a biography?
A: I have a family of three, no two; I’ve got a son and a daughter. My wife graduated from Riverview High School in Southampton. My family is doing good. My son is still at home. My daughter is living in Toledo, Ohio. She married a preacher, and they have a church up there. On the whole, my family is doing good.
Q: Is there anything else you would like to add to your statement?
A: No, but I got my background in Carrsville Elementary School under Mrs. Coma P. Walden. She was a disciplinarian and one the strictest teachers I know. She knew how to discipline. That’s where I got my background from.
Q: Alright, thank you very much Mr. Holland.