Interview with Mrs. Mary Johnson
March 22,2003
Interviewed by Sandra M. Lowe
Mrs. Johnson attended Muddy Cross School (listed as Muddy Fork on school records), during the fourth grade the school was closed and students were sent to Bridger.
Q: Mrs. Mary Johnson is here today and she is going to give us information about her childhood experiences in Isle of Wight. We would like to start with the area that you grew up in.
A: I grew up in the Batan Road Area. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it. It’s about one mile south of Benn’s Church. The road turns off to the left off Highway 10.
Q: Do you have any sisters or brothers?
A: I had three brothers. They are all deceased.
Q: Did they attend county schools also?
A: Oh yes.
Q: The same school?
A: Yes, Muddy Cross, we called it. Muddy Cross School, I guess some of the others may have told you about it. And that road leads right across from Batan Road that is Muddy Cross Road to the right that leads to where the school was.
Q: You attended Muddy Cross, also?
A: Yes.
Q: What grades did you attend there?
A: I began in the first grade, I think in 1935, I believe. I attended there until the Fourth Grade when we moved to Bridger.
Q: From Bridger you finished the seventh grade?
A: Yes.
Q: Starting with the first school that you went to how many classrooms were there?
A: Two.
Q: Who were some of your teachers?
A: My first teacher was Miss Mattie Jordan. When I went to the Fourth Grade my teacher was Mr. William V. Hunter. I think he was from Newport News; I’m not sure but I think he was.
Q: That would have been when you got to Bridger?
A: Yes, she was still my teacher. I was still in Fourth Grade when the school moved to Bridger.
Q: Do you have any information about either of those schools as far as when they were opened or when they closed?
A: Bridger, I think opened about 1940 because that was my fourth year and they closed that school in ’70, I believe. Wait a minute; it was I think it was 1961. When they went to Isle of Wight it was ’61. Yeah, ’61.
Q: How did you get to and from school?
A: We had to walk.
Q: Was that some distance?
A: Yes, a long distance. Probably about five miles, I guess, four or five miles from where the house that I originally, you know, lived when I was in the first grade. It was probably four or five miles.
Q: Was that one way?
A: One way.
Q: Did you have any experiences that you can tell us about in your walking back and forth?
A: Yes. Most of the time I was with someone, walking with someone else. In the beginning with my two older brothers, and then later sometime we joined other students along the way. And the same thing coming from school, you know, walking with other kids most of the time.
Q: Do you recall names of some of the kids that you walked to school with? Or family?
A: Yes, the family. There was the family of Bailey on the road where I lived. And there was Edwards and there were Crokers on the lane on the road. And there were Badgers on that road, too.
Q: Did you have chores that you had to do before you went to school or that had to be done when you returned?
A: Yes, usually we had to get water sometimes before and after school because there were times when the well would be dry. We couldn’t get water so we had to go to the neighbor’s house to draw water—my younger brother and I.
Q: Once you were at school, what activities did you have before the day started?
A: Well, we always had singing and we had prayer. You know, like devotional. That’s the main thing that we had before, starting with that.
Q: Were there chores that had to be done at school before you started the day?
A: Well, sometimes the larger children, especially the boys, would have to adjust the shades; you know, to the windows—the window shades. Of course, cleaned the erasers and cleaned the blackboard, and such as that.
Q: What subjects did you have in the classes and do you recall any specific textbooks that you used?
A: I believe we had the “Peter and Peggy” Reader, and I think we had the language book called the _______. I’m not for sure. I think that’s what it was. But I do remember Peter and Peggy.
Q: How long was the school day?
A: I think it something like nine to three.
Q: You wanted to add something?
A: When we first entered school we were vaccinated at the school rather than prior to entering during that time. Muddy Cross School actually had three rooms, but only two of them were used for classrooms. The third one was used for storing some things. I think the coats were hung in there, too, I believe. And the water, which we had to get water from a spring. And the water was kept in there, too, for washing hands and drinking.
Q: You had a container of some type?
A: Pail, a pail for the water, and the students went into the woods to get it from the spring—the larger students.
Q: You said the school day started at nine?
A: I think. As far as I can remember from nine to three, I think.
Q: What can you tell us about the lunch period?
A: It probably lasted about half an hour, I suppose.
Q: Any lunches made by the teacher at any time or did you always bring your lunch?
A: We’d always take our lunches from home. After we got to Bridger we had some food that was donated by the County, I believe, to supplement our bag lunches at Bridger.
Q: When did you have recess?
A: What time, you mean?
Q: Yes, well, did you have one before lunch, after lunch or combined with lunch?
A: We had two recesses. We had one I can’t remember if it was before or after lunch. Seems it was after lunch. I’m not sure. Maybe someone else can help us. But I know we did have at least two recesses.
Q: I was thinking about the 30-minute lunch, maybe you went outside after.
A: Yes, we did have time to play after we ate our little sandwiches or whatever we had. We had time to play then, too. And then there was another recess. I’m trying to think if it was in the afternoon or morning. I’m not sure.
Q: How would you describe your classroom at the first school, and then the second?
A: Well, the first school was sorta shaped like an L-shaped school. Say we entered this door (demonstrates) right here this would be the entrance to the first classroom. There was the blackboard here. The teacher’s desk, I think, was kinda off from the blackboard ___________. There was a heater over in this corner—a wood heater.
Q: Pot-bellied stove or a different type?
A: I think it was. I’m not sure (chuckles). Let me see, there was another blackboard over on this wall on this side, too, after you enter the door, I believe. We had another blackboard along this wall. Then it had a row of windows, probably about four, windows on that end and windows on this side. Behind these windows there was a building—woodhouse building and the lavatory building on farther down beyond that. And that’s mainly. And the seats were in rows facing the teacher’s desk. Teacher’s desk was probably right along here and there was another blackboard over there. And then there was a door leading to that third room, that room where things were kept
Q: Cloakroom?
A: Cloakroom. And at the farther end of that was the door leading to the other classroom, which was from Fourth Grade to Seventh Grade.
Q: You mentioned the teacher’s desk and the students’ desks. How would you describe those?
A: The desks were—I’m trying to think—I think they folded, I mean the seats that folded and they had the arms and legs on the end of the arms, and wooden seats.
Q: Your water supply, how was that?
A: That was brought from the spring.
Q: Were there any aids or anything on the teacher’s desk?
A: Any aids? You mean visual aids?
Q: Visual aids or pictures.
A: Oh, yes, she would have such as that.
Q: What was your lighting source? Only windows or?
A: Well, I don’t recall any lights, you know. If they had to have anything at night, they would have, you know, oil lamps. But during the daytime I don’t recall having seen any lights of any kind.
Q: What was done when there was need to punish a child or what was the way of handling discipline?
A: Sometime they would get switched by Miss Jordan, the teacher. We called her Miss Mattie. Everybody called her Miss Mattie Jordan. Miss Mattie would sometime punish that way. Sometime she would have a student stand in the corner.
Q: Was there a need for punishment seldom or often?
A: Well, some of the students hardly gave any trouble, you know. There were just a few that, you know, were trouble ones.
Q: Are there any other school experiences that you would like to tell us about?
A: Well, maybe about like games that we played. I remember we played “Ring-Around-the-Roses”, we played “Dropping the Handkerchief”, and well we did a lot of running, too, (laughs) like playing ball or something like that—dodge ball or some kind of ball. I vividly remember at Bridger I used to like to play softball a lot at Bridger. But mainly at the other school we played like ring games, you know, some kind of games ________.
Q: Was that because you had gotten older or they had more space at Bridger?
A: Well, after I got older, you know, as beginners we didn’t know how to play softball anyway. Even though we had—we probably could have found space, but any way, we didn’t. The boys played like marbles and they played some kind ball seems like. And another thing that the boys did in the wintertime—they would go out on a little pond that fish had frozen over and they’d be skating with their shoes on. (Laughs)
Q: And that worked out all right?
A: Yes. It was very cold back then and didn’t have any danger of the ice breaking. Very cold.
Q: I mean the shoes that they would slide on?
A: They would slide with their shoes, like the broags, I guess whatever you call those high top shoes. (Laughs)
Q: We learn something everyday.
A: Yeah, they were skating with shoes on.
Q: Are there any other childhood memories you recall as you grew up? It doesn’t have to have been in elementary.
A: Well, another thing about that school while we were at the elementary school at Muddy Cross we did not have space for a large gathering like school closing or commencement whatever. So that would be held in a church that was close by—Muddy Cross Church, they used to call it. Which is now New Bethany Christian Church. And they had to move that on the Highway 10.
Q: It’s in a different location?
A: Yes, the church now is in a different building. Same church body of people.
Q: Is there anything else about those programs that stand out in your mind?
A: I used to be shy and didn’t get up to recite. (Laughs)
Q: After you attended elementary and high school what jobs do you recall having? Sort of give us some highlights of your life.
A: Oh, I thought you wanted some more about the school. I didn’t ever give you the teachers. Do you want me to give you about the teachers?
Q: Yes, go ahead and give that and then we’ll get back to the other questions.
A: All right. Let me see the teachers. I gave you Miss Mattie, Miss Jordan and Mr. Hunter. There were other teachers that had been to the school that did not teach me. I don’t know if you want their names, but I do know some of them.
Q: Yes, yes go ahead.
A: Someone may have already given these, but anyway I remember there was a Miss Kelly, Mr. Edwards; I think his first name was Lilton. I’m not sure. They taught before Mr. Hunter came. They taught my older brothers, but they didn’t teach me. And at Bridger we had Mrs. Ollie Randolph Ball who replaced Mr. Hunter. Then after her came Mrs. Mattie B. Ellis of Norfolk after her was Mrs. Lily Parker of Suffolk, VA and she stayed with the school until it closed. Also, there were substitute teachers, Miss Harris and a Miss Elvira Hill who were substitute teachers at Bridger.
Q: Anything else?
A: Already mentioned the boys played ball. Well, we still had the wood stove and I think we burned coal, too, there at Bridger. And while we were at Bridger, as I said the County supplied some of the food. The girls sometime cook some of the apples that we got, the fresh apples. They would make applesauce and they heated the canned pinto beans on this heater and they also made chocolate milk with the cocoa and canned milk.
Q: Can you give us the highlights of things that you did in your life after elementary and high school?
A: Well, I didn’t pursue my dream. I had wanted to become a fashion designer. After I came out of high school I did take a correspondence course in it. But after I got married I spent most of my time designing and making clothes for my big family. I had five girls and two boys. They kept me pretty busy.
Q: Anything else?
A: My two older children also attended Bridger School. We had moved into a house just across from Bridger School, and while there I did their janitorial work for a brief time. _____________ my family kept me busy. I really didn’t get into work too much until after my last child went to school. I did some part work and different things. The last job I had was seamstress, did repair seamstress.
Q: Do you still do that?
A: No, I had to quit that job in 2001 in order to take care of my husband who is deceased.
Q: We have come to the end of the questions that I have, but if you have anything else that you would like to add, that would be fine. Are there any notes that you haven’t given us?
A: While we were living in that house in front of Bridger in ’58, I believe, my older daughter began at Hardy and she had completed the Third Grade at Bridger. After she completed the Third Grade they were moved into the Hardy Elementary School and that was in ’61. ’61 when they moved into Hardy and Miss Jordan also moved along with the students into Hardy. She taught at Hardy also for a while. I remember because I had to go into the hospital for the birth of another daughter, and I remember my mother had to see my children off to school. This daughter is my third daughter. No, she’s my fourth daughter born Aug. 29, 1961, and that’s when the children moved into Hardy School. They started at Hardy. Of course, I wasn’t able to see them off to school, so my mother did it for me.
Q: Well, Mrs. Johnson, thank you very much for your information. I appreciate your coming out today and being willing to let us interview you.
A: Okay. Now this is a picture of Miss Mattie Jordan and Miss Parker at Bridger School. That school had a little cloakroom, you know, individual cloakroom attached and also they had a row of folding doors that divided the two classrooms which they would push back whenever they had a lot of people gathering there. For special occasions they would push the door back.
Q: Can I take this and make a copy and give it back to you?
A: Yes, you may. And there is some information on the back, too, concerning the picture and the school.
Q: Yes, I read that. I need to get a signed permission slip from you.