Q: Today is September 13, 2003 and my name is Elsie Hall. I am going to interview Mr. John Frank Knight for the Schoolhouse Museum, we would like to ask you some questions concerning your, where you went to school. First thing we would like to know is what part of Isle of Wight County did you grow up in? What part of the county?
A: Carrsville.
Q: In Carrsville, Virginia. All right, did you have any brothers and sisters?
A: Nine.
Q: How many?
A: Nine.
Q: Nine sisters and brothers! OK, how many sisters?
A: Three sisters, five brothers.
Q: Three sisters and five brothers. That’s a nice family. Did they all, what school did you attend?
A: Carrsville Elementary School.
Q: Carrsville Elementary, how many rooms did they have?
A: Two.
Q: They had two rooms. All right, did all your brothers and sisters attend that school?
A: No, no, the younger one went some place else.
Q: The younger one went some place else.
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Went to Windsor, Windsor Elementary?
A: Right.
Q: All right then.
A: Georgia Tyler.
Q: It was called Georgie Tyler?
A: Yeah, back then.
Q: OK. All right, well, what grades were taught in the school room that you went to, the two-room school?
A: First through seventh.
Q: First through the seventh. All right. How many teachers did you have?
A: Two.
Q: Two teachers and they divided the classes. Some taught first and maybe third?
A: First through third and fourth through seventh.
Q: First through seventh. You had two classrooms and two teachers?
A: Right.
Q: OK, how many years did you, you attend first through seventh?
A: Yeah.
Q: OK. Do you know who your teachers, some of the two teachers, did the same two teachers teach you all seven years?
A: No, Mrs. Coma Walden and Miss Catherine Chapman.
Q: Okay, Miss Kathleen Chapman. All right. Do you know what year; do you happen to know what year that school closed? You don’t remember that?
A: No, sorry. In the mid fifties, somewhere along there.
Q: In the mid fifties? Okay, well, were there any changes made to the school while you were there or did it remain mostly the same?
A: About the same.
Q: Okay, all right. Well, how did you get to and from school?
A: Walked.
Q: You walked, how many miles?
A: Four.
Q: Four miles and do know how many days, how many hours a day the school lasted?
A: Nine to three.
Q: Nine to three. All right. Do you want to elaborate a little bit on the classrooms, how they were? You know, how were, were there hardwood floors or …?
A: Hardwood floors.
Q: And the heating?
A: Potbellied stove.
Q: Potbellied stove.
A: Coal, heaped up on everything—pine sticks. (laughs)
Q: All right. So you all did have some chores to do when you got there?
A: Yes, we did. The big boys had to get the wood, gather sticks and keep the fire going. We had a little coal in the fall for the year.
Q: Did it last the whole year?
A: What we did, we went on railroad tracks and picked up coal, I mean on the tracks.
Q: In case the coal would give out?
A: It give out.
Q: Oh, that’s interesting. So you did keep warm then because you were close to the railroad tracks?
A: We kept the front warm, but the back was chilly.
Q: OK. You mean the back of your body?
A: (laughs)
Q: All right, well, how were the desks, anyway, were they desks or …?
A: We had some desks and had two children, two to a desk.
Q: Two to a desk. OK. Well, that’s very interesting. And did the, so you stayed pretty warm?
A: Yeah.
Q: So, how, what, did you have anything to do at home before you would have to get up and go to school?
A: When I got up, after I got about eight years old, when I got up, I had to go out there and work, sometimes before school. Then I would go to school. Rain comes; I’ve been to school only in the rain.
Q: Because evidently that was a farm.
A: Farm, that was a farm, uh huh; my Daddy was a sharecropper.
Q: So that kind of took some of your time away from school, but you still went and was able to go and finish all?
A: I failed the fourth grade because I didn’t have enough days in school. I had grades good enough, but didn’t have enough days in school.
Q: All right. Did your chores at home --I guess were like feeding the pigs and cutting the wood? Because you’ve done looked at my paper.
A: (laughs)
Q: No, I didn’t but I’ve been thinking about it. All right, do you, anything else you want to say about going to school, before you went and after you got there? Did you get really cold? I mean if you were really cold, you had to warm up by that heater?
A: Had to walk fast to try to keep warm.
Q: Whoever got there first would start the fire?
A: Would start the fire.
Q: Did you try to get there first?
A: (laughs)
Q: OK, so when you got there, you wanted to sort of get warmed up?
A: Right, right.
Q: That’s natural. Okay, well, how long was the school year? You told me the day was from nine to three, but what time did the school year start, what month?
A: September through May, I think.
Q: September through May. OK, but when it got real bad and snowy, you all probably didn’t try to walk to school?
A: Yes, we did.
Q: You still went through the snow?
A: Snow didn’t stop school.
Q: So you still went!?
A: That’s was a better day when we couldn’t really walk.
Q: You were kind of glad to see it. All right, when you were at school and once it became lunchtime and all, how long did you have for lunch? How did you all make it, did you have bag lunches?
A: (laughs) We didn’t have nothing at home.
Q: Oh, you didn’t take lunch?
A: Sometimes you might have something, but most time didn’t eat and just go back home. (laughs)
Q: OK. But you did have lunch period?
A: Yeah, had lunch period.
Q: But you just didn’t eat your lunch? How long were the recesses?
A: Thirty minutes, I think at 10 or 10:30.
Q: I guess that was your good time of the day, the recess?
A: Good time of the day.
Q: Do you remember any of the games you guys played?
A: We played baseball, football, I don’t know.
Q: You all didn’t get to play with the girls any much did you?
A: Well…
Q: They were separate?
A: (laughs)
Q All right, so you enjoyed, how long was your recess, 30 minutes, you said?
A: Thirty minutes.
Q: Did you have any breaks like a short period recess before you had the lunch time?
A: No.
Q: All your recess came at lunch time?
A: Recess was about 30 minutes.
Q: At about 10:30.
A: But most time we didn’t get much for lunch, but most time somebody had a little something.
Q: All right then, did they have, what kind of restrooms did you all have?
A: One on one side and one on other side.
Q: The girls had one and the boys had one?
A: Right, on the outside. Outside, you know what I am talking about. (laughs)
Q Yeah. How about the water?
A: Had a pump from a well.
Q: And they would pump the water there?
A: One pump.
Q: When the pump would freeze, what would you do?
A: No water that day (laughs).
Q: No water then?
A: No water (laughs).
Q: You couldn’t even heat water, well you didn’t have water?
A: Didn’t have no water. (laughs)
Q Well, when you wanted to drink water, did you have to bring your own cup, or you just had?
A: I had a little twist up cup we would pull out.
Q: Yeah, I remember those. I’ve seen some of those, little cups you pull out right and drink out of those, Ok.
Q: Ok, I guess you would have to line up to get your water?
A: Yeah, line up, yes, you would because it was after recess and trying to get back in line, but you always line up. The teacher stand at the door and watch on one side and one on the other side.
Q: So anything else you want to tell me? You can add something in anytime you want to because I’m just asking what, if you want to add something else you can.
A: Most of the time we opened up with a song, a prayer, and a Bible verse.
Q: That was good, I had left that out, you did have a song, prayer, and Bible verse. Did you do the Pledge of Allegiance?
A: Right, ______________.
Q Did you have chalkboards in the school?
A: ___________________________
Q: Then someone had to dust erasers?
A: Oh yeah, go outside, that was a good time, we got to …
Q: She would appoint different people to do that particular thing?
A: Right.
Q: Well, how about in the afternoon, when school is over, did anybody have to stay back and sweep the floors or clean?
A: No, that was did before we leave, before we got out,_______.
Q: Ok. Before you left?
A: ______________________________
Q: So everybody would sort of do that together?
A: She would appoint ________________________.
Q: ________________________________.
A: Unless you did something real bad wrong, you would get a paddling.
Q: What kind of punishment did you have?
A: Well, we had stand _______ and paddle your hand.
Q: If you did something wrong?
A: Then you stand in the corner, everybody looking at you, by that potbellied stove in summertime, in wintertime you were in trouble. The heat be pumping, you be sitting there sweating. (laughs)
Q: So you weren’t too far from the stove; so you really didn’t like to get in trouble?
A: No, no.
Q: Because of the punishment. Well, that’s natural. All right, what kind of, we talked about the desks that you had and the teacher’s desk, do you remember anything about how her desk looked?
A: No, because_____________________________________________________
Q: She had a big wooden type desk?
A: Wooden desk, She kept things, she was a neat person, she kept things. We had a good teacher when I got there.
Q: That’s good and you learned a lot.
A: We got along very well.
Q: On the wall, did she have any teaching aids, things up there like your alphabet or your 1, 2, 3’s?
A: Mrs. Chapman did, she had the first and second grades. She had __________________________.
Q: Do you remember anything about the paper and the pencils? What type pencils you had or whether …?
A: I remember #3 pencils.
Q: Number 3 pencils?
A: ____________________ and the notebook thing, there wasn’t no folder like we’ve got now, just regular paper.
Q: Just regular paper? Was it rough paper or was it slick?
A: It was slick. At some point in time, someone would come with rough paper, but most of the time it was slick paper.
Q: All right, what kind of way was, did you have big windows?
A: We had big windows on the front and on the sides.
Q: So you had plenty of light?
A: We had plenty of light, had two lights hung down.
Q: Oh, you had lights that hung down too?
A: Um huh, would pull ’em.
Q: Oh, you would pull ’em?
A: (laughs)
Q: OK, do you want to tell me anything about the lights? Then it was just two big lights in each classroom?
A: Well, it was two; I think one in one classroom and one in the other.
Q: Where did you put your coats and hats?
A: We had a little closet outside.
Q: Little cloakroom?
A: A lot of the time, most time, I _______ put them back up. ______ (laughs)
Q: So you kept yours nearby so if you get cold, you could slip it back on? That was a wise idea. You talked about the punishment, but did you ever get punished really much?
A: No, not really.
Q: You were a good boy?
A: No, if you get me one time, you wouldn’t get me no more.
Q: Were you the teacher pet?
A: (laughs)
Q: You were the teacher’s pet?
A: We got along.
Q: That’s good, that’s very good.
A: ________________ I can remember ______ I was afraid of the woods, I didn’t like it back in the woods.
Q: I don’t blame you for that.
A: (laughs) If I got a beating for one thing one time, you didn’t have to worry about me no more.
Q: Did you all have things like spelling bees and, you know, you line up and see who could spell the most words?
A: Yes, we did stuff like that, yes.
Q: Anything else you want to tell me concerning your classroom, your class, your schoolhouse days?
A: Well, we used to get the fruit from other school they turned down. Just like that, they would send it down by ____________, we would get it then.
Q: They would send fruit to you?
A: The white school.
Q: They would send that to your school?
A: When it got old, we got it.
Q: Oh, so everybody would get an apple or a pear or something like that?
A: Something like that.
Q: But it would probably be a little rotten?
A: Yeah.
Q: But you ate it anyway, what you could eat of it?
A: Sure would. You couldn’t miss _______ Miss Chapman always kept _______________________.
Q: Because you were the teacher pet? I keep hearing that teacher pet part. All right, well, those books that you all had, did you have to, did your parents have to buy your books or were they donated by the county? Do you remember that?
A: We had to buy the books, but it wasn’t that much though. A lot of the time you got your hand-me-down ones from the other schools, they got the new ones, we got the old ones.
Q: Did you ever see any of those, were they riding buses and you were walking?
A: Oh yeah, where I walked from, a bus come right by my door. I walked the bus _______________ walked behind it. If there was snow on the road or something, it would come flying ________________________________. The bus would go right by us.
Q: Oh my goodness, but did those children, were they polite; did they yell at you or …?
A: Yes, they called you all kind of names, “See the niggers walking _________.” I will tell you I come through something but I enjoyed it. It was rough, but I …
Q: This is of some interest to me; like you say you were a sharecropper. Did any of the children that lived on, with the person that you were farming for, did they ride that bus? If you were working with them sometimes you felt a little …?
A: With the whites?
Q: Yeah.
A: No, they didn’t work.
Q: They didn’t work in the fields?
A: No.
Q: Ok, Ok.
A: They didn’t do that, that was a hot job. They would, you would see them in summertime, school time, they would come out and play around and things like that. Never see them do no work though.
Q: Are there any other childhood memories you remember growing up? Any particular, you never got in a fight with any other boys, I know that because you said you didn’t like to fight.
A: No, I got a few little _________, I didn’t like to fight.
Q: Any good memories you remember about your childhood days? I’m sure there were some good times.
A: Oh yeah, I enjoyed it because I was the oldest of the ten.
Q: Oh, you were the oldest?
A: Uh huh, and see I went to on down to Smithfield for a year and a half. I finished the ninth grade in January and my Dad got hurt, so they took me out of school. That was the saddest part, saddest day when my class ended and all the teachers signed my name from the roll and I went right straight to _____.
Q: I know that was bad.
A: I didn’t say until I got home, but it hurt.
Q: I know.
A: It just, you can imagine.
Q: I imagine it was bad.
A: I heard that ring all over the school; drop John Knight from the roll. ___________ then I got home, then Dad and Mommy had so much to do.
Q: I know, but being the oldest, they figured you had to help with the family.
A: Oh yeah, I worked for all of them, helped feed the whole camp of nine. _________________________
Q: I guess they look up to you?
A: Oh, ___________. Even one that is a doctor, he is a doctor _______, when he finished college, offered to take care of my family when they go to see him.
Q: Oh, that was wonderful. You didn’t take him up on that though?
A: No, I said, “You’ve got a young family, just starting.” I ___________
Q: Well, you never did go back to get a GED or anything?
A: No.
Q: Still not too late, you can still do that.
A: Yeah.
Q: Okay and after quitting, after being taken out of school to work on the farm, when did you ever leave the farm?
A: When I got married.
Q: When you got married. (laughs) You got another job then.
A: I got another job then. Then I still went back and worked on that farm then.
Q: Oh yeah, because you were living out there?
A: _____ I still worked the farm, when I worked ___________ then I helped them all the time. Then __________________________ start the tractor ______________ he had three tractors the last two years I worked on the farm.
Q: By you having operated the tractor, you knew more about it than they did?
A: Yeah.
Q: So you were very valuable to them by then?
A: Oh yeah.
Q: They probably had to pay you and all that?
A: __________ you’ve got all these college degrees, I don’t have nothing but a muscle degree.
Q: But the college degree sometimes don’t help you with those tractors and things that the farm has?
A: I enjoyed it though, I really worked.
Q: So then you got married after that and raised your own family?
A: I made one thing sure, I said, “You go on and get four years of college, both of you.” I paid both of them for four years of college.
Q: You have two children?
A: Yes
Q: Boys?
A: Boy and a girl.
Q: Boy and a girl? So they finished college?
A: Uh huh.
Q: That’s very nice.
A: I said, “Now, if I don’t get nothing else, you all____________________.
Q: That’s good, and I guess they, I’m sure they appreciated that.
A: Yeah.
Q: Are they in college now or are they finished?
A: Oh, they are finished long ago, my daughter she’s a computer analyst.
Q: Computer analyst, your daughter and your son is? He’s got a good job.
A: _____________________________
Q: I saw your wife; look like you have a beautiful wife.
A: Oh yeah.
Q: So you seem very happy?
A: Oh yeah, it will be 50 years the first of _______________.
Q: Oh, that’s very nice. (Neavy Graves) Can you tell us about the success of some of your brothers? (Interviewer) Success of some of your brothers, what did they …?
A: They all did pretty good. Yeah, he went to college. All of them went to college. __________. So, all of them doing well, three of them are family doctors, dentists.
Q: Oh my goodness!
A: Two are preachers. _______________________________________ My sister, the oldest one, she is in Gloucester, she’s a ______________________.
Q: That’s a wonderful family, you all, you know, were very successful. That’s really, really, good. I know they all feel like they owe you a lot because you, you know, helped with the family, helped to spearhead the family, keep them going.
A: I enjoyed it. If I had to do it again, I’d do it over.
Q: I imagine when you all have reunions and all, it’s a wonderful time?
A: We all got together back in July, 4th of July. We got to talking about those old days. I keep them all laughing, because I said I don’t know anything else, but I ______________ (laughs) I said once you break it down, I ______________________ (laughs) _____________________________
Q: Sounds like you have a very close knit family and a wonderful family?
A: We all hang tight together.
Q: That’s really good. Yes, that’s nice. And your parents, I guess both of them are deceased?
A: No, my mother still living.
Q: You mother’s still living?
A: She was supposed to be here today but she had ______________.
Q: Oh, OK, well, that’s wonderful. One of them’s still living.
A: Uh huh, she’s a working lady. I guess, she go out there and clean out, 87, whatever, 80 something. She go out there _____________________________________.
Q: She just loves.
A: She get up _____________________. You talk about me ___________________________. You telling me ________________ I ain’t telling you nothing. I got hurt on the job back in ‘88. I fell 25 feet. I still got _________.
Q: Oh really and you didn’t get that hurt? You got hurt, but …?
A: I didn’t work anymore; I had ___________ surgery on my neck, back, hand. I didn’t talk about it.
Q: That’s very good. You’ve got a lot to be thankful for.
A: I tell them all, you see me, I’m a miracle.
Q: A miracle. Well, we certainly have enjoyed talking to you; it has been very interesting to me and inspiring also. If you have anything else you would like to say...