Interview with Mrs. Terese Murray
April 26,2003
Interviewed by Sandra M. Lowe
Mrs. Murray was raised in the Carrsville area and attended Mitchell School. She was 87 at the time of this interview her memory was sharp and she was humorous and enjoyable.
Q: Mrs. Murry, can you tell us what area of Isle of Wight you grew up in?
A: Carrsville Area.
Q: When you were in the Carrsville area, how many sisters and brothers did you have?
A: I had, ah, 15 of us. Eight and seven is 15, right? That’s how many it was.
Q: And where were you in the 15?
A: I was eight.
Q: In the middle. What schools did they attend? Do you remember?
A: Mitchell School, everyone.
Q: You went to Mitchell, too, right?
A: Yes.
Q: When you were at Mitchell how many grades were taught there?
A: Pre-primmer to the seventh
Q: And how many classrooms?
A: One.
Q: And your teacher?
A: My teachers.
Q: Teachers?
A: My first teacher was Rev. Mattocks. I don’t know if you can spell his name or not. Rev. David Giles Mattock, that was my first teacher. He was from Norfolk and he only stayed until Christmas. After Christmas Mrs. Ruby Diggs came and she taught that session. That was all she taught. The next one was Helen Tynes. She taught long then. After Helen Tynes was Lucille Stokes.
Q: And did she stay for a while?
A: Lucille stayed for a year. After Lucille the first year—Lucille came back after we got the two-room school, but I wasn’t going to school at that time. I was married when we got the two-room school at Mitchell School. After Lucille was Helen Faulk. She was from Portsmouth. After Helen Faulk it was Lovania Mitchell. I reckon you remember her—Fannie Hart, the last teacher.
Q: When you went to Mitchell, what year would that have been, approximately?
A: Now, look. I started to school—gonna give you some figuring to do now—I started to school when I would have been six years old that December. And now I am 87. Now how old was I.
Q: That was 82 years ago so you are talking about 1921-1922 around that area. When you started had Mitchell been up for a long time? Maybe you had heard other folk talking about it?
A: My older sister –all of us went to Mitchell School and it was seven older than me and all of them went to Mitchell School. Mitchell was pretty old then.
Q: Was pretty old. You said that it didn’t have two rooms until after you had grown up, so all that time it was a one-room school until probably in the 40’s.
A: Something like that. Let’s see, I got married in ’35. And it was a one-room school when I got married. I reckon it was about I would say four or five years before they built that two-room school.
Q: Did they add on a room or did the build a new school?
A: They built a new school.
Q: And still called it Mitchell School?
A: Still called it Mitchell School.
Q: On the same lot or nearby?
A: No, just about I’d say maybe a half a mile down the road from it.
Q: Is either building still standing?
A: Oh, both of them.
Q: Both of them. I’d like to get some directions after this so we can take pictures. How far did you live from the school?
A: About five miles.
Q: So you walked round trip?
A: Yeah.
Q: What time did you have to leave home?
A: I think we must have left home somewhere close to eight o’clock ‘cause school opened at nine. It was nine to three.
Q: And did you have chores to do before you left for school?
A: Sweep the floor. That was some of it. You know every day somebody would have to sweep. It would be two of us sweep everyday.
Q: Once you got to school and warmed up, if necessary, or whatever how did the day start? How did the teacher begin the day?
A: We had devotion. Is that what you’re talking about? We started with devotion every morning. We sang a song, we prayed, she read the scripture and we sang another song and then we go into our lessons. And you know the first subject was arithmetic.
Q: While you are awake and raring to go?
A: Yeah. Surely was.
Q: What about the other subjects? What do you remember about them?
A: I remember English. We called that language during that time. I don’t think we said English. We had arithmetic, reading, writing—we had them writing books. Do they have them now? We had them. We would have a certain church working that. We had history, which I despised, from start to finish, spelling. I was a great reader.
Q: What do you remember about your readers? Were they all “Dick and Jane” and “See Spot Run”?
A: We didn’t have no “Dick and Jane”. We had “Baby Ray”. Baby Ray had a dog; the dog was little; the little dog loved Baby Ray; Baby Ray loved the little dog. I think that was our first book, I think. I reckon that was the primmer. We went through a little primmer, then we went through the big primmer. All that was one session.
Q: Anything else about the subjects that you recall?
A: I think that’s all we had.
Q: After you had a couple of subjects, was it time for recess, the morning recess?
A: Yes, we had ten minutes. I don’t know what time that was. It must have been about 10:30. Ten minutes. Part time we were out there exercising that ten minutes. We wanted to be playing, but we had to have that exercise.
Q: That was organized play?
A: Yeah.
Q: When did you get a chance just to play? Was that at lunch?
A: Yeah, at lunchtime. We’d eat the lunch just a quick as we could. We had an hour out and we’d eat as quick as we could so we could play ball or anything.
Q: What do you remember about other games or activities you had at lunch?
A: We played “Mary Go Round the Mulberry Bush”. I think still plays that, and “Dropping the Handkerchief”. What else?
Q: Get in a circle and somebody run around and drop the handkerchief.
A: Farmer in the Dell, the farmer take a wife and the farmer pick somebody out the line and the wife take a child and bring them in the ring with them and then we got the whole family in there.
Q: Do you remember anything specific about the lunch? Bringing lunch from home or whether they served anything.
A: Oh no, we brought lunch from home. We had tin buckets. Some of us had the quart paint buckets, some had paper bags, some had lunch boxes, and we had anything. Nothing special. I don’t think we ever had no light bread. I think we had just biscuits. That’s all I ever know was biscuits, fried meat, baked chicken or anything like that—just ordinary eating. Everybody had to bring a glass for your water, to drink water.
Q: The water came from?
A: Old man Joe Mitchell’s house. We had to tote our water.
Q: So there was no pump there?
A: No, no pump there so we had to tote water. It was a pump there, but it lasted a little while and then we had to go up to Mr. Mitchell’s house to get the water.
Q: What did you use for a rest room?
A: We had outside toilets.
Q: Two?
A: Two, one for the boys and one for the girls.
Q: Your heat for the winter was provided by what?
A: Wood. Wood heater.
Q: Did the County supply the wood for you or the coal or anything?
A: The parents bought the wood.
Q: Do you know if the County provided anything at all when you were going to school?
A: No. I don’t know unless it was the benches that we sat on.
Q: As far as you know the parents in the area provided a lot?
A: They bought the wood, I know.
Q: The parents provided a lot of whatever you had.
A: Yes.
Q: How would you describe the classroom? What did it look like? What was in there?
A: The teacher had a table. Let’s say that the door was the window. On each side was a window and the teacher’s desk was right in the front of that window. That was this old homemade table. Something ‘bout big as that but it was taller. That’s where the teacher’s desk was. Some of us had nothing but a bench and the books had to go on your lap and what you don’t use had to be down there on the floor. And the smaller children would be on benches beside the wall. And our benches would go like this and the smaller children’s benches were on the wall—right beside the wall with no backs. Everybody…was a few desks in the school, just a few. The rest of us would have to write in our lap, do the best we could.
Q: Were there any teaching aides on the walls?
A: _______________ (End of tape—garbled)
Q: _______________ (End of tape)
Q: You didn’t have a long row of windows all the way down one side. You just had a couple small windows?
A: Small windows, two small windows on each side and one at the teacher’s desk. Three windows in the building.
Q: That’s different from most of the other buildings that have been described.
A: Oh yeah?
Q: Most of them had windows all the way down one side and they had plenty of light.
A: We were seeing all right
Q: You probably weren’t. Was there a cloakroom in there?
A: What?
Q: A place to hang your coats?
A: Oh yeah, like this. We had this on the wall.
Q: You had a wood strip?
A: Yes, that’s right, sure did.
Q: In that classroom or was it?
A: In that classroom.
Q: Everything was in that room?
A: Everything was in that room. Water bucket, glasses, everything on a shelf. Sure was. And when we get ready to go home somebody passed the wraps. Passed the wraps.
Q: Did you have someone to pass out the lunch?
A: Yeah, somebody passed the lunch. Sure did.
Q: What was done when there was a need for discipline or punishment?
A: They whipped you then. Kept you in. I can say I never got a whipping at school, but I have had to stay in now.
Q: What are the positive memories that you have of those days? Things that you enjoyed doing or experiencing, may have been a teacher or some of your classmates or just that whole period.
A: One thing—we used to have a party _______________ during the school session. We would have the party and we would have pinning the donkey’s tail. The donkey…Catherine Holloman, she was the drawing thing in the school, and she would draw this big ole donkey put him on the wall and we pay five cent to try to pin that tail on that donkey. We’d make a whole lot money, too ‘cause it was so many of us and the parents and everybody you know would try to get tail on that donkey. So many would buy and pay for that and couldn’t get that tail on that donkey. I remember one time I stuck the donkey’s tail up there on the ear. At Thanksgiving always the teacher would make us draw turkey and I couldn’t ever draw nothing. Couldn’t draw nothing! I’d ask Catherine Holloman. I’d say Catherine, draw me a turkey. She say, “I ain’t gon draw you nothing, draw it yourself!” So I had to draw the turkey. The teacher held it up and showed it to everybody and we had the most fun off of my turkey. Well, that was the worse something I ever seen. After that we had a party with nothing but some cookies and hot chocolate. And we thought that was something good.
Q: It was.
A: It was, it certainly was. I remember that, a whole lot I remember. And we had the best school closing in the County. You know the parents would build a stage out there. Come out the door and they have a big ole stage built out there and we would have the best school closing. All the Mitchell school children could sing. I still remember a song we sang one time. Lucille, she was a music player and she brought her piano to school and play: and do something for somebody every day to help them along in their heavenly way, a living epistle anew for God, a witness for Jesus and glorify God. I’m telling you we could sing out there on that stage. White folks and everybody be standing out there listening to us sing. She could play that piano. I don’t think I’ll ever forget that ‘cause I had to stay in one time. I was so sure I had mine right because we had to learn it. That’s what I say, we didn’t have no paper; we had to learn the song. That’s the reason I know them now. I was so sure I had mine right—do something for somebody every day, one by your wayside might be far from life. Then she said, “Hold it!” I just know I had it right. She said, “Hold it!” I say, “What’s wrong?” She said, “You said it wrong.” Couldn’t think what in the world did I say wrong. I put the wayside in but it won’t nothing by side. Said it wasn’t by your wayside; it wasn’t suppose be nothing but your side—one by your side might be far from life. Every time I would say one by your wayside. I had to git that right. That was fun and ole Bernice Goodman would always laugh herself to death when I made a mistake ‘cause she said I was always so sure of myself. And they just had fun when I made a mistake.
Q: That was good. I hate to ask you this next question because I was enjoying that so much, but are there any negative things that you can think about during that period? Anything that was not good about going to school during that period of time or the time itself.
A: I can’t remember nothing, I don’t think. I don’t think.
Q: Are there any other school experiences you would like to tell us about?
A: I reckon I done ‘bout told enough.
Q: I have plenty of tape, plenty of tape. I did want to find out about the program that you had mentioned. You were talking about where you pinned the tail on the donkey and you had the cookies and the chocolate, and so forth. Was that an after school activity to raise money or was it just a party?
A: The donkey, that was for money for the treasure.
Q: To help get things for the school?
A: Yeah, that’s right. The chocolate that was just our little Friday evening party ‘cause that was no money in there. And we would have a league meeting, hold ourselves a league meeting every Friday and we would put a penny or just whatever we had. We would put a penny and some of us would have a nickel and we pay that and you know when they call your name if you had a penny you said one dollar and if you had five cents you say five dollars. That’s the way we would get our little stuff to serve at the school like our cookies and chocolate. And that’s what we get our money and some time when we would have some to turn over to the big league when school closed.
Q: What can you tell me about the parents’ league or like a PTA? What did the community do to help with the school?
A: They had league meeting every month. We called it league meeting. The parents and the teacher and the teacher would tell the parents on you if you won’t doing right. And the parents would ___________. Whether she was right or wrong the parents was going to believe what the teacher said. They weren’t going to believe the children. They didn’t go against nothing the teacher said, not none of the parents. You know now they stand up there and lay the teacher out and don’t believe nothing but what their child say. It won’t like that when I was coming ‘long. You so scared your Daddy was going to get after you ‘bout something the next morning after the league meeting. ______________ was told on me. Sure was.
Q: Can you think of things that the League was able to pay for or to get for the school?
A: I don’t think I can. I don’t think I can. I know when the white folks got through with their books, their, ahh, now they might had to pay a little bit of something for them seats. We always had to have second hand everything from the white school. And so I think we might had to pay a little bit for them.
Q: For the what?
A: For the benches.
Q: Benches and chairs?
A: Yes.
Q: Are there any other childhood memories that you could tell us about that wouldn’t have to deal with the school?
A: No, I don’t think so. I think I done told most of it.
Q: One last question. I know you can tell us a lot about your life, highlights of your life. Like a little autobiography of things that you did or experienced after you got out of school, when you got married. What happened after that?
A: The first thing I done ________________ I moved in my house. I got married on Sunday and moved in my house on Tuesday. That’s the first thing I did. I thought I was something when I cooked my supper that night.
Q: You were living with your family?
A: No, no. I never stayed with my family. I stayed with Cordie’s, my husband, sister two nights. We stayed there two nights, cleaned at my house. Cleaned the house, moved on Monday and moved in the house on Tuesday. What else?
Q: Family, children, jobs?
A: I never worked away from the house until I believe it was 16 years later. Always was just a housekeeper. I worked 11 months at the meat house and then went to drive a school bus 1953. Wait a minute now.
Q: 1952 or ‘53 to Georgie Tyler?
A: I went to __________ December 1952. The next year I was driving the school bus, that was 1953. Virginia and Paige graduated Georgie Tyler Elementary School. Then they went to Smithfield. Paige graduated in…didn’t you go to Windsor Elementary? Then had to come back, you know, from Smithfield back to Georgie Tyler when it went into high school. I think Paige come back in _________ to Georgie Tyler.
Q: Any other highlights?
A: Naw, I ain’t got nothing else to tell, I don’t think.
Q: Ok. I won’t push it. I just want to thank you for giving us some time and some delightful stories and I appreciate it. I really do. I’ve enjoyed being back with you today.
A: I’ve enjoyed being with you, too. Sure did.