Interview with Mrs. Frances Perry
February 8, 2003
Interview by Alicia Ferguson (HU)
Mrs. Perry was one of many students caught in a new county ruling that you had to attend the closest school to your home, so she ended up at Bridger School instead of the elementary department of Isle of Wight Training School.
Q. We’re interviewing Ms. Frances Perry. I'm Alicia Ferguson and were gonna talk about your school days and any other information that you want to give us is welcomed.
Q. Were you a student? Teacher?
A. I was a student.
Q. At what school? At what county?
A. The school was named Bridger, b-r-i-d-g-e-r school it was the, let me think 1 grades, in Isle of Wight County. I started in the Isle of Wight County Training School where they had an elementary department but, riding the buses there was a law passed that if you passed any of the elementary schools then you would have to get off and could not pass the elementary school and go to the high school where there was an elementary department. So that's when I had to get off at the first elementary school that I passed which was Bridger School in the county. So I went there from the 4* grade to the 7 grade.
Q. Do you remember your teacher’s names?
A. My teachers were Mrs.—(pause). Mrs. Mattie Jordan and Mrs. Vernidette Parker.
Q. Can you describe the building the schoolhouse?
A. Well the schoolhouse was ah (pause) one level-one floor.
Q. Mmhh
A. Ah one floor and ah the classes were divided by folding doors. That divided the first through the fourth grade in one room. The 5 6 and 7 grade were in the second part, ah let me see Ms. Matie Jordan was the teacher for the l st -4* grade and Ms.Wilie K. Parker was the 5th - 7th grade, so we were was all in different (pause) age brackets as far as your and the teachers would teach each section 5, 6, 7th, she would lead each one to be doing something while she spent more of her time with whatever class would be with the 5th graders something to do until she came around to them that's what, how she arranged it, teaching the class.
Q. Maybe, can you remember and of the furniture that was in the room?
A. Ah, yes we had, desk that they uh lets see here, you had a place to put your books, it was a wooden desk and you put your books beneath the desk and ah (pause) - isn't very much that was the type of desk we used.
Q. Did you have a chalkboard?
A. Ah, yes you had the chalkboard -1 can always remember the alphabet was, you Know, was at the top of the board that remained there for what teachers use now you now I would guess they’re always changing their boards now. I can’t remember us having things for each season, we might have. I can remember for Christmas especially, you made chains and you’d color your paper, then you'd cut it out a certain width, and ah you'd tape this together with white paper paste and you make those chains together and put them on the Christmas tree.
Q. How was the lighting, how'd did ya'll light the room? With candle, lamp, did you have electricity?
A. Ah no, there wasn't electricity at that time, I can recall they had uh lamps that um was attached to the wall and that was the way, very seldom, you had anything at night,anyway So you didn't need the lights. So you didn't need the lights but lights (pause), we call them lamps that were mounted on the wall.
Q.What about heating?
A.For your heat you used ah coal, they had a large stove I wouldn’t say (pause) potbelly stove, it was the type of stove that ah, it was made out of wrought iron and ah they would have a place that they'd brought the coal in and kept during the day to put in the stove. Oh one thing I can recall is the boys would help the teacher start the fire in the morning.
There was no heat when you first got to school, so you had to ah start the fire and that was, I guess we had something we called kindling or paper, enough to get that coal ignited and then that would burn all morning and I guess about noon they would add more to it, from what I could remember.
Q. What types of things did you learn? What were your subjects?
A. You had your ah English; your reading, math, and English.Those were your main subjects that you learned. Ah—and spelling- definitely spelling because we had spelling bees. And that would be ah where in all the classes could take a part I think that's one thing we done together, was spelling, as so therefore there was a certain day that you would have you test, but then you would have the time when we would have group who ever could spell the most words from ah the words that were called so that was one of the fun things I can remember was having the spelling bees.
Q. So that was your favorite?
Ah yeah, I would say that- was yes um, we had reading I could remember and you had plays at times.
Q. Oh.
A. Little plays, um, I guess.
Q. What about textbooks?
A. That's as far as I can remember--you had spelling, reading book, and math book.
Q. Did everyone have one? Or…
A. That's what I... to my... as I recall I think we all had that. Maybe it ah had more than one um child and family they maybe just ah that one book that they would all have to share its best that with your spelling and being in the same room that is as much as I can remember.
Q. What types of utensils did you guys use? Notebooks? Or tablets?
A. Uh we used a little tablet and your pencil, crayon uh your eraser. I recall ah lot of times where you would be used up the eraser on your pencils and ah they had one that ah you could cover the eraser part again…and some children would be able to have the block eraser, you know they had something extra that they had there where some of us might not have that. Uh what would be problem too, getting your pencil sharpened that the thing I could recall that looked like mine, I always wanted to have a nice sharp pencil, and couldn't do it so much but what my father would do was sharpen your pencils before you leave, he would do it at night for you and ah as we sweet children of today have backpacks, we didn't have that during that era. Lot of children um that walked to school they would um --take a belt… I would notice the boys would wrap this belt around their books-threw it over they shoulder; so it was still carrying your books not just in your arms, where most of us girls-- we carried our books in our arms but the boys used that belt.
Q. Speaking of belts did ya'll have a punishment, did the teachers punish you?
A. For the time that I was there the punishment was, there was some that would get the ruler they would spank you so many timed in your hand um... I think you sit in the corner that was the type of punishment during that time. Ah at times you would hear them say they had to expel somebody from school for a certain length of time so that was a type of punishment they put in they and what they did.
Q.Do you remember any punishments you received?
A. I guess was too, uh - how do I say this because my, my parents were older. My mother was 45 when I was born you know that was one thing which they installed in me was a good behavior pattern, there was no talking back. There was um a tight unit, you know that you that you were taught to be polite to people to respect people and so when your teacher told you ah asked you to do something ah to me this is what you had to do, I didn't question it you know I (pause) children of today... they quickly ask you why and you need to be prepared to give them an answer, a sensible answer that doesn't, their expectation is for you to further explain yourself. So ah for me I didn't get any type of punishment as I can remember at school. I saw some things that children had to be punished for- only time if I was in any type of punishment it was when everybody had to be punished. Sometime when everybody or somebody was talking and if she couldn't pinpoint who it was then everybody…and one of the things I can remember too was the punishment you had to write so many times I will not, or I will do such a such a thing that was one of our main I can remember having to write something about something we done of hadn't done as far as your homework or being impolite. I will stop talking when the teacher asked us to stop taking yeah that was one of the forms of punishment, there at school yeah this kid it seemed my 1, 2rd, 3rd, year everyday was writing cause you know(pause) there was a difference the children to me was a little rougher, the boys would a, if you go outside would be chasing you, they had a belt or something mischievous--s but there I met some friends that have been lifetime friends from having go back to Bridger school.
Q. How long was the school day?
A. I- I… for us ah I think it was 9 to 3 wasn't it (pause) as I say riding the bus that means I had to get there about 8:30 and sometime if we had to stand outside until the teacher came, the teachers came from, my teacher at first came from Suffolk, so therefore she had to come with the teachers that were going to Isle of Wight Training School and she wouldn't get there until probably 9 or 8:45 or maybe a little later at times but I think the school hours were 9 to 3.
Q. How long was it during the year?
A. Um...
Q. Same as now?
A. Same as now because you went back to school after Labor Day and you got out I thought we got out in May, I think we got out in May.
Q. What were the chores that you had to do before school that you could remember?
A. Ah yes Ah in my home ah we had animals-that was your cows and your chickens and ah mules; some people had horses my father had a mule but my chore was to make sure that the chickens were feed you would feed them um after school your chores was to make sure that you got in the firewood and the kindling, kindling was normally dry wood that would easily ignite and if we didn't have drier wood you got something called light wood and that would be where an old tree, pine especially either been cut down or blown down and the stump over period of time would turn in to uh something we'd called lightwood it would be pine. We'd call oil that would be down in the stump--usually in the age this would easily ignite, so you wouldn't have to use kerosene or paper if you had matches you could easily get that fire started. We also used something called corn cob, ah you would, ah the corn of the cob and cut them you got chips that would have been cut into piles, to gather the chips and keep then so that would have also started the fire or if your fire got low during the day you would a use that and if you quickly ignite, you get heat.
Q. Tell me more about the animals, what did you feed the chickens?
A. We feed the chickens corn, normally it was corn and in the later years you had a chicken feed and that's where they cracked up the corn and some other ingredients, I guess minerals in for them and ah you had speaking of chickens you also had the baby chicks that was baby chicks and you feed them well and they growing into the larger chickens.
Q. So your chores were just basically the chickens?
A. The chickens, and the ah getting the kindling; the wood-- um I learned cows too--milk the cows- we had our own cows um, we had hogs and ah I had to care of their feed for any of the animals-- it was two children-- and my sister was older at home after she left and I was my daddy’s boy because I helped with you know as far as the care of the livestock and the other animals we had there.
Q. Did you guys play games at recess?
A. Yes, we got recess. That was, I think half an hour, maybe…and I don’t remember the time, but I remember that we had a chance to go to the bathroom, wash your hands and eat your lunch.
Q. Were the restrooms inside?
A. No your restrooms were outside, we called them outhouses and toilets-one for the boys and one for the girls, and in that day from what I can remember it had an enclosure, not just the outhouse itself with a door, but it would have a fencing around it therefore it was just two seats in there but if more children came in the could stand in line without being exposed to the outside.
Q. Did you guys play games at recess?
A. Some of the games were jump rope, squirrels chasing nuts.
Q. Can you tell us about that?
A. At that time someone would call the game you would play. I know at that time you would have to try and get to the tree post. It would be robbers and you would have to get there a certain time and get you a spot. And it would just continue until someone would get out. You know they did not have a place to go. So, that is what cut you out and they would keep on until the last person. Oh…what was that game? " Little Sally Ann Sitting in the sand weeping and a crying for a nice young man. Ride Sally ride, wipe your eyes... Look to the east, look to the west, turn to the one that you like the best." You would just repeat it. I was trying to think if that was a jump rope song. It was and then you had another one you could play with a jump rope. You had two jump ropes. Double dutch and the other game was …
Q. What about the boys, did they basketball?
A. Well, the boys played baseball. Normally, baseball and softball because you didn't have football during them days. Hopscotch was the other game. Where you drew on the ground and played that. In later years, it was jacks, bobby jacks. In school we had games to help us learn or was it just the game rook. I can't remember exactly how it went, but we played it and it was educational too…and of course we had dominos. There were a lot of things for amusement. There was another game where you had to get in a circle and one had to get in the circle. Whatever the game was we would be going all around and you would squat and whatever the words I remember that; and there were games that I think are still being played. Oh, pin the tail on the donkey we played that. The boys I remember baseball and marbles. They would fight over marbles, the big stealer marble. Always somebody would have one and the other one would try to get it and try to pluck one out of him or use it when it was not supposed to be used. But this stealer had a lot of an effect on a game. I know hopscotch; we played that so there were a lot of things to keep you entertained. But you couldn't get the chance to play all the games in one day, but someday you might get to play a lot of games; and girls there is another game that we played and they still play today. We used X's, Tic-tac toe. The girls would pay it in the rooms and write with chalk on the chalkboard.
Q. Are there any other school experiences on your mind that stick out that you want to tell us about?
A. As I said having had the chance to rode to bus and get off at one destination was quite an experience for me to have to leave my little friends that I made in when I started to Isle of Wight Training for my primary grades there.I had to come back and make new friends, and being by myself, I was not one of those persons very open. I guess I mingled with you, but if you seemed unwanted, I did not bother. One of the things I learned to do was mingle with different people and having to get to school earlier- there were families that opened their homes to children. There was a nice family that didn’t have any small children; Mr. and Mrs. Eddie Johnson would invite us to come in out of the cold. We would sit around their kitchen table and they could see when the teacher came in and they knew the timing. They would tell us it is time for you guys to get ready with your coats and bags and get back to the school. It was interesting to be with other people who cared for you. You had two families. The girls had to make sure on Mondays or this was their custom. They washed and that time the woman would hand wash and rinse the clothes and they would be hung by the time we went to school. Some would put water in pails and get it from the wells. It was amazing to see the girls do the washing, rinsing, and were still ready to go to school. That was one thing we would start our day. It always felt good to go home around three and hear the bell ring. They rung the bell at lunchtime and I think we had breaks where we would go stand in line for water and someone would pump the water and splash it. The more I think about it, I remember eating things I never had at home. I ate fox grape. The boys would go out in the woods and climb in the trees and cross the road and the boys would get in trouble from the teacher. They would get in trouble because you aren't suppose to cross the road, but the girls would say you should try it and it was good. They used to eat hickory nuts. There was a tree and we would get them and have a hard time cracking them. I learned to eat sour bread and I wasn't used to this.
Q. What did you take for lunch?
A. Normally, I would have some type of meat because we raised livestock. It would probably be biscuits and jelly and maybe a piece of shoulder meat and that in a sandwich or bacon. Normally one sandwich of biscuit of meat and one of jellies or preserves. On occasions we had cake. Forfruit we had peaches, apples, or pears. We grew pears on our place and you very seldom got a banana. The oranges were so big and smellt good, but you only got them around Christmas time. So, that was basically …
Q. You went to school from first to seventh grade?
A. Yes, but yes I finished and graduated from seventh grade and went to Isle of Wight County Training School and finished high school, but I did not pursue college. I took classes of interest. I think if my mother had known it was an advantage that you could obtain, if you had land or you owned property you could have took a lien or something and got money to go to school, but my father had died and she didn’t have transportation, and she did not know about-other than to pay to go, I had looked into going to Virginia State for nursing, but they kinda fell through on me and the person that said they would help me didn’t, so I didn’t go.
Q. So what did you do after high school?
A. After high school I went and worked up north. In a year I married and had one child. I was a housewife and then next thing you know you went into the public for work, you did not stay at home for very long.
Q. What type of job did you hold?
A. I’ve been a cafeteria worker; I worked with General Electric in the building of the television. I worked from 1960-1972; I worked at Smithfield Packing Company in the cafeteria. I left there and went to General Electric in Portsmouth and we built the television from 1972-1983. I was there until 1983. In 1983 they closed up soon after and I went to Avon or Newport News Inc., which is now owned by Spiegel. I was in the merchandise fulfillment department. We shipped orders that were mailed in. We would get the garment and make sure it was right for packing.We worked in what we called picking, packing, and returning. We would have returns when people sent things back that they did not want and we would send the money back. We learned to inspect and use the computer a little. Learned to inspect and see if anything was wrong before putting it back into active. Then while there I did take nursing CNA; got my license for that and did some companion care and I retired from there in 1999.
Q. What type of influence was church?
A. My church was quite a part of my life. I grew up in church when we had to go in the mule and cart and it was in the afternoon twice a month. They had lighting there and wood stoves in the early days too; outhouse toilets, the well outside, and many activities involved in your church life now is much more now than you did then. I accepted Christ as my Savior at an early age. There is a lot more to learn and because I am involved more. I was always a part of the Sunday School but we used to walk to Sunday School --had Easter programs, we had fall or late summer revivals, and would get a chance to met more people from other church families and churches and we would fellowship with one another. You would hear your parents say we got to go to Christian home, which I used to love to come here so much until my mother told me about one night when it was raining, we had a storm, she told us Daddy said we weren’t going to church, and I was bent over crying and crying because I wanted to go to Christian Home, and go to sleep. Just the idea of going to an area where there were children of my age group. The area we lived at the time it was no houses in site, but now there are people all around. My father sold lots and he said he started a neighborhood. I was in the missionary circle and the choir at church.
Q. So, music was very important?
A. Yes, it was very important I think I enjoyed it from a childhood because my mother was dedicated to singing. She instilled into us about learning the songs out of the hymnals. It’s still very happy moment –it’s something about the peace that you get when you can hum and you can forget about some of the things that you’re thinking about-- you can’t do nothing about it at times, and you must wait, and be patient, and set my priorities.
Q. Is there anything else you want to say?
A. No, thank you.