Q: My name is Elsie Hall and I am interviewing today, Mrs. Elsie Gray Porter, for the Schoolhouse Museum… this interview is for the Schoolhouse Museum. We’ve got to have you as a person we can interview this morning and you can give us your ideas of how things were when you attended the schoolhouse in those days, in the early days. Mrs. Porter, in what area of Isle of Wight did you grow up in?
A: Holly Grove area, Windsor and Isle of Wight County.
Q: Okay. What about your peers, how many sisters and brothers did you have?
A: Six. I had three sisters, yeah, three sisters, no, two brothers and four sisters.
Q: Okay. Two brothers and four sisters. Were you the oldest or?
A: No, I was third from the oldest.
Q: You were third from the oldest. Okay. Did they all attend, what school did you attend? What was the name of the school?
A: I attended Central Hill School in Central Hill, part of Windsor, Virginia…and my sister; I had one sister and a brother that attended Holly Grove School in the community of Holly Grove.
Q: Okay. But you never attended the Holly Grove.
A: No, I didn’t. I visited. I would go up when I was just a little girl to sit with them and I wasn’t of age to go to Holly Grove.
Q: So they came to Holly Grove first.
A: Yes.
Q: And then they went to Central Hill School.
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Well, what grades were taught at the Holly Grove School? Do you remember or do you know?
A: I am not sure but it was the first to the seventh and then they went to Isle of Wight Training School. I remember some of the older girls that went to Holly Grove and I know they went to Isle of Wight Training School after they left Holly Grove.
Q: Okay. So in Central Hill School, what were the grades there?
A: First through seventh.
Q: First through seven and then they went on to Smithfield. Okay. Well, now, you know more, I guess, about the Central Hill School than you do the Holly Grove School so I shall ask you some questions concerning that unless you want to elaborate on something about the Holly Grove School. How many teachers did they have? Do you remember Holly Grove?
A: At Holly Grove, they had one teacher, Mrs. Laura Briggs Butler.
Q: Okay. And she taught all those grades?
A: She taught all the grades.
Q: How many rooms was there?
A: It was one room.
Q: One room. That was something else. All right then. In the Central Hill School, how many teachers?
A: Two.
Q: Two teachers.
A: And it was two rooms.
Q: Two rooms. All right. Okay. And you finished all, you went through all the seven grades at Central Hill?
A: No. Central Hill School closed in 1949. I went to the sixth grade there…and they built Georgia Tyler Elementary School and I went to the seventh grade at Georgia Tyler and it was built in 1949.
Q: Okay…and in leaving Georgia Tyler, you still had to go on to Smithfield.
A: Right.
Q: All right. Well, do you remember, I know you do, your teachers at Central Hill School?
A: Yes, my first teacher was Miss Catherine Chapman (records show-Lillie Mae Chatman) and during the time she was teaching us she got married and she moved to New York and then after that, Mrs. Gladys Chapman came. But I never, Mrs. Gladys Chapman never taught me. I was out of that grade, that first grade and second grade level. I was in a little higher so I went on to Miss Howell.
Q: Well, that was great. All right. Do you know whether or not the school, either of the schools, was county owned or were they on private, were they private owned land?
A: They were county owned.
Q: County owned. Okay. Well, how did you get to and from school? When you attended the Central Hill School and the people that came to Holly Grove, how did they go?
A: Well, the people that went to Holly Grove walked because it was right there in the community but when we went, when we went to Central Hill, we rode the bus.
Q: Okay. That was good. They had a, you had a bus then.
A: Uh huh. Yes.
Q: What year was that? Do you remember? You might have said that.
A: Well, I know I went to Georgia Tyler in ’49 so I probably started Central Hill in ’44.
Q: Okay. All right then. Well, what jobs did you, when you were home you said you had, you were, there were six of you?
A: Uh-huh. Seven in all.
Q: Seven in all. Did you have any particular jobs you had to do at home before going to school or after you got home from school? Do you remember any of those things?
A: Oh yes, I certainly do. Well, in the morning I didn’t do anything in the morning but you know, get dressed for school and get breakfast and go to school. But in the evening, when I came home in the evening, I had to like, get in the wood, you know, by the fire and I always washed dishes and just chores, you know, sweeping the floor, I can’t remember really scrubbing during, you know, the week but I scrubbed, you know, on the weekends and you know, kept the house clean, helped my mother keep the house clean.
Q: Well, most of the people then did have work that they had to do, the children. All right. Well, what did you, what was some of the chores you did at school? Did you have anything that you did at school, little jobs?
A: At school, we had to shake the erasers for the blackboard and we had to like, sometime clean up around the potbelly stove that we had. We had a, they used coal…and the boys would put the coal in the stove. But we had to keep clean around the stove and we had to hang up our coats. Keep the children coats hung up…and the larger children sometimes helped, you know, with the little tiny children…and keep the coats hung up in the closet, in the little clothes closet.
Q: So you did have a cloakroom. We called it a cloakroom in those days. All right. Well, what subjects were taught there? Well, how did the school day start in other words? It started how?
A: Okay. It started with devotion. We had, we sang a song and we prayed and had a little devotion every morning. Said Pledge Allegiance to the Flag and that’s how it started. In the evening, we sung “Now the day is over.” And then we would go home.
Q: All right. Well, what subjects were taught?
A: Uh, well, reading and writing and arithmetic was taught in the first, not in the first grade. Reading mostly was taught in the first and second grade and they did start you writing later on. But the ______ had it right but we did get writing books later on. But in the third, fourth and fifth grade we took reading, writing, arithmetic, history, and I think that’s about all.
Q: Were there any specific textbooks that you remember like your reader? Some people had the “Dick and Jane” things. Do you remember which reader you had?
A: I had “Dick and Jane”.
Q: Okay. All right. How long was your school day?
A: We went at 9 and we got out at 3:30. So that was about, what, is it 8 ½ hours? About 8 ½ hours.
Q: How long was the school year?
A: The school year was eight months. We went to school in September and we got out in May.
Q: All right. Do you remember where you all ate lunch and how long a period of time you had for your lunch period?
A: We had an hour…and we ate lunch at, in the classroom when it was raining or cold. We would eat lunch in the classroom…and then when it was sunshiny they would let us go out and eat lunch. We could sit out on the pump stand or just anywhere we wanted to as long as we stayed on the school grounds.
Q: When did you have recess? How long did you have for recess? And how many recesses did you have?
A: In elementary school, we had a recess in the evening. I guess it was about 15 minutes.
Q: What kind of games or what did you all do during the recess?
A: We played dodge ball, we played baseball, we played croquette, we ran around, just tagging, and the boys played fox. They went all through the woods, running through the woods, fox hunting. They would run into each other and sometimes they would run and they wouldn’t get back in time. I remember one time, everybody was so afraid because the boys was in the woods and didn’t nobody know where they were. They had got lost in the woods but they finally got back, you know.
Q: Well, were they punished for being late when they would do that?
A: Yes. This happened one time ‘cause a lot of times, they was a little late but, I can’t remember them ever getting punished for it.
Q: All right, well okay. How would you describe your classroom? You said it was two rooms at Central Hill. How would you describe it? Your desk and the teacher’s desk and so forth. How would you describe those?
A: Well, the teacher’s desk was in front and we were, the desks were just lined so you couldn’t go through. You know, you go through and you would just be always sitting in front of the teacher. Or the teacher was sitting in front of us.
Q: And her desk was in the front. All right. Well then, how, you told me earlier though that the school was heated by coal. Well, that was the way it was heated…and now what about the restrooms? Where did you all, did you have?
A: We had outdoor toilets. There was two, one for the boys and one for the girls. We had a big coal house.
Q: That was good. I imagine the boys had to keep the coal. What about your water supply?
A: We had a pump.
Q: A pump. You all were drawing the well. What about your, you have described the teacher’s desk already and the students’ desks. Did you all have chalkboards then? Did you have, you said erasers a while ago so you did have chalkboards.
A: Yeah, yeah.
Q: And crayons.
A: Uh- huh.
Q: What about, the teachers, you know like, did they have, what did they have? Did they have anything on the walls like your alphabets and so forth? Or do you remember whether they had any learning things up? All right, Mrs. Porter, we were just talking about the aids that they had on the wall. Do you have anything else you want to add to that?
A: …wrote the alphabets on the boards. The teachers there had the alphabets and the numbers on the board. And that’s all I can remember. The walls were real bad. I do know that. I don’t even recall them ever being painted.
Q: Okay. How about the floors? Were they hardwood?
A: Very bad. They were rough. They put, I think it was some kind of motor oil on the floors to make it to, you know, to keep the floors, like the floors was not, you know, they weren’t even. You could walk and it had big holes, you know. They would cover up as best they could.
Q: So you had to be very careful. But you don’t remember anybody getting hurt on anything like the floors or walls?
A: No, yeah. I remember them falling down and hurting their knees and feet and hands and legs and things like that but, you know, nothing to go to the hospital. In fact, I didn’t even know about a hospital I don’t guess. You know, at that particular time, the teacher had little things they would put on you if you got hurt.
Q: Okay. Like a first aid kit.
A: Yeah. Like a little first aid kit. I remember out on the pump, the pump was up on a big cement block and a lot of kids got hurt out on the pump stand playing and running, you know. They were falling and bump their head and get scarred up or even get cut. You know, like that.
Q: Do you remember with this pump, did they bring pails of water in? The pump was outside, right?
A: Yes.
Q: So you would have your own glass or cup or how do you remember anything about that?
A: The pump was outside and they would bring water in and they had a dipper…and I know the teacher tried to get cups, little cups that you could, little cups that you could pull up and drink out of and they asked parents if they would, you know, get cups for the kids.
Q: So everybody would have their own cup?
A: Yes. They probably wrote their names on the bottom of them or something.
Q: All right. Well, that was an idea. Good idea. What about the windows, did you, what kind of light did they have? Did they have big windows? You didn’t have electricity then did you, or did you? Do you remember whether they had electricity?
A: They had electricity.
Q: They had electricity.
A: Uh- huh. Let me tell you this too. A lot of times you didn’t have a cup, you drank the water out of your hands. You just put your hands together and drank the water.
Q: Okay.
A: So that’s what a lot of us was doing. ‘Cause a lot of times, might go back to get your cup or you might not have a cup, you know, or whatever.
Q: Well, anyway, that was the way they had to do until it got better I imagine. You already said there was a cloakroom and wall hooks and all that kind of things so what kind of punishment did you all get? I mean, you did something wrong, how did the teacher go about punishing you or discipline? How was the discipline?
They would beat you. In your hand. Sometimes they make you bend over and pop you on your back.
Q: And there was nothing said I imagine from your parents. There was not any comeback on that then like there is now?
A: No. But one particular incident there was something said. Because sometimes if you did something wrong, they would stand you behind that hot coal heater and let you stand back there. And they stood me back there. And when I went home I was blistered in my back…and my grandfather he went out, you know, to see the teacher, because you know, they thought that was the wrong thing to do.
Q: All right. So that was the form of discipline. What about, like, sweeping the, now, I know some people would maybe had to sweep the floors as punishment to stay back. But you all were on the bus so you couldn’t stay back too long to sweep the floors or do that kind of punishment.
A: Oh, no. No. We swept floors sometimes even at lunch time or sometime if the floors were dirty.
Q: All right. Is there anything else you want to tell me about the discipline or something particular you remember that happened in the school or during the school days or a particular thing that happened with you and your teacher? As you were the student that you can remember?
A: Well, one thing I know, we fight. That’s for sure. Yeah, I mean, you know, it was just like, I guess, but sometimes, you know like the bus would come and everybody was trying to get on the bus at the same time so they would get to fighting out there. And sometimes the water, you know, at the mud holes, and if the people was rushing in, a whole lot of people fall in the mud and get soaking wet.
Q: And go to school wet.
A: No. That was going home.
Q: Oh, this was going home.
A: Yeah. And they would get wet, you know. I never got wet but I would see, you know, especially the boys.
Q: I can understand that ‘cause boys are very mischievous. All right. Do you have any positive memories of school or your school days? You know, something that you really liked, something good, really good that happened or whatever?
A: Yes, I do. When I was going to Central Hill, we had this teacher, Miss Chapman (Chatman), and we, all of us just loved her…and when she left and she let us know she was getting married and moving to New York. We were just crying and, you know, she was crying too…and it was just, you know, the teachers then were more like mothers. And they were pretty close to the children and the children were more close I think to each other Even though, you know, they fought and stuff we did. But everybody loved each other. It wasn’t nothing that go to the carpet. A person I think really want to hurt someone.
Q: Well now. I guess you put the positive and the negative things of school. Is there any additional school experiences you would like to add or maybe your first day of school or how it was to leave home as a first day student or how it was to, just anything you want to say, you may say it now concerning your school days and it don’t have to be about the school, just anything you want to talk about concerning that.
A: Well, I would like to say this; I don’t want to leave anything out too much. We walked up from my house, we rode the bus but I lived down this road, dirt road right there…and we had to walk up to the road to catch the bus. And we would be walking and, you know, the white kids, they rode the bus all the way through and a lot of times we would get wet because the bus would come down and hit these mud holes and splash water all over us. And we would still be walking and we had to come up and catch the bus…and, you know, I just feel like, you know, kids. Because we felt like they were coming right past our house…and sometimes it would be pouring down rain, whatever and we were still walking.
Q: Well, did they ever do any gestures or, you know, like pick at you guys or throw paper out the window at you?
A: No, they never did that. But it just seemed to us that the bus driver would just, you know, speed up and then hit those mud holes and just splash water all over us. But the kids, they never, you know. A lot of the kids be known anyway.
Q: When you got to the end of the road, when you met the bus out here at the road, if you weren’t there, did the bus driver leave you or did they wait a few minutes?
A: They would wait a few minutes.
Q: They would see you coming maybe down that long road so that was good. That was a good bus driver I would think.
A: Yes, it was. We had a good bus driver.
Q: All right. Okay. After attending school, did your childhood memories at home and at school, after that particular time, what experiences would you like to tell us about? You have children now of your own or maybe your marriage or your, some of your career or anything you would like to talk about that has happened to you since the school days, those early schoolhood days?
A: Well, my memories at home was good. During the time that we were in high school and after I got larger we would work in the fields in the summer…and to help buy clothes, you know, to go to school with…and I enjoyed it. Because, you know, I make my own living and it helped us a lot. And I believe it helped me as I grew up too because I know the responsibility that, you know, that you need. Your responsibility that you go through and think you should too. I feel like that I had a good bringing up to let me know how it would be as I grew up. So, you know, as I grew up and I got married and I worked and I have children. I have five children…and we raised them and I feel like I had a good marriage. Then I worked and then I went into the insurance business and I worked for the insurance company and I really enjoyed it because it gave me a chance to travel a lot and I enjoyed it…and now I would say that I really had an enjoyable life. You know, that’s life.
Q: That’s cool.
A: I lost my husband in 1990 and that was really something, you know. But I still continued on because I still feel like it was my bringing up. That I could stay in firm in my beliefs…and I attended Holly Grove Church all my life. I’ve enjoyed attending Holly Grove Church…and, you know, it just gave me something to build on, you know, in my life. And I feel like that helped me in my life.
Q: Well, in your opinion, your experiences growing up, were you able to relay those to your children and let them see that now things are so much better than they were when we came along or when you came along? And do you think it was helpful to them to realize that they are living in a better time and a better day and even though you had a productive life, they can still, you know, like the riding of the bus and one room school, that they were able to have a better school experience as a younger person? Do you think that helped the children these days to know about this and to realize that things haven’t always been easy with their parents and so forth? What do you think abides with them when they hear about this?
A: I think it does. It really helps them. I think it gives them something to build on too…and let them know that even though we had harder times and our parents before us had even harder times. But I let them know that we worked hard to try to bring them up and to make it easier for them…and I think that really helped also, you know, in raising children and bringing them to where they are today. I think they know I had my hard times and I even have them today. I never believed that a parent and a child should be on the same level.
Q: If you don’t have anything else you want to add, you may not have anything else, we certainly do thank you for this interview and it has been very enlightening and we really appreciate it and thank you so much.
A: Uh- huh. Okay.