Q: What area did you grow up in?
A: Down not far from the James River Bridge.
Q: Do you have any sisters and brothers?
A: No, I was the only child.
Q: What school did you attend?
A: At that time it was known as the Carrollton Grade School…and it was from one through seven grades.
Q: Can you recall any of your teacher’s names?
A: Oh yeah, the one that I remember first was Ms. Mack Latimer. She was I think the principal at that particular time. Now this school originally had four rooms in it but there was only two them that were being used and had been just two used for quite awhile. Because when they built the school over in Smithfield they move the majority of the kids over here especially when they started High School so that is the reason they only had just the seven grades down there. Now Mrs. Latimer was the principal. We had another teacher that was Madelyn Ramsey, later on Mrs. Reynolds Parker. Another was Elizabeth Gillette, who was married to Mr. King down in Rescue. Then we had another one named Ida Ruth Cofield, and to my knowledge she never married, she was from up in Orbit, but she taught school down there. So they are the one that I can remember fight off hand. I believe that’s about all the teachers I can remember.
Q: Do you know when the school opened and or when it closed?
A: No, I don’t know when it opened and to my knowledge it operated up into the ‘30’s. After that everyone came to Smithfield.
Q: About how many students were in the school? Do you know?
A: I would say roughly fifty all together split up between those two rooms.
Q: How did you get to and from school?
A: Believe it or not I lived about a mile from the school and I had a pony that I rode every morning. I rode the pony to school. We had one boy that drove a wagon with a mule hooked to it. It looked like one of these wagons that you would go out West on. It had a cover over it and he brought about seven or eight kids every morning. His name was James Purdy and he came from down Possum Neck. Drove that mule and wagon there every morning and some mornings it was really cold. There wasn’t any heater in there either so people had to dress warm enough to take care of it.
Q: Where is Possum Neck?
A: Just before you get to Tan Road, right in that area.
Q: But you rode the pony back and forth to school for how long?
A: I guess for five years at least.
Q: Same pony?
A: Yeah, Yeah, and he knew his way just as good as I did. He knew exactly where he was going. I didn’t have to guide him or anything.
Q: Did you have any chores to do before or after school?
A: At home I hardly even had anything to do before I went to school, and of course when I got home in the afternoon. We lived on a farm and I was expected to help feed the cows and the hogs and things of that nature and of course sometime had to bring in stove wood because we burned wood. That was about of my work at home in the afternoon. By being an only child I don’t think I was overworked too much anyway. I thought I was.
Q: Once at school did you have any chores to do before classes started?
A: Basically the only chores we had there was to bring in the wood. There was an old building outside that we bring in the wood and the school was heated by a wood stove. The kids were expected to bring in the wood when they get to school. That was about the extent we had to do with school chores.
Q: Who had to clean out the firebox on the stove?
A: Yeah, that had to be cleaned every now and then.
Q: Did some of the students do that?
A: Oh, yeah we were required to do that. But basically to heat the school that was out job to bring in the wood. I think I can’t say for sure, but I believe the wood was probably donated by the parents of the children, because there was an old building outside there that they put the wood in. It was always in this building. It wasn’t outside where there was rain or snow. So consequently it was dry, so it wasn’t too bad.
Q: When you went to school what did you do for lunch and what did you do for something to drink?
A: We had taken our own lunch which was a bag lunch and then so far as the water was concerned. There was an artisan well just below the school that overflowed. That’s where we got our water from that overflowing well. I can remember you could take a glass or cup and go down there and fill it up. Believe it or not the water was sort of warm because it was down deep in the ground. But seldom could you find an overflowing well anymore now. Sometime there was as much as one hundred feet under the ground before the water you can get to it.
Q: What would you take for the traditional lunch?
A: Usually mother would fix sandwiches made out of maybe a lot of times bologna, some sort of meat, some cheese and things of that kind. It was always a good wholesome lunch, but you didn’t have any hot soup or anything like that.
Q: Homemade bread?
A: Yeah, homemade bread most of the time and a lot of the time she would have loaf bread for me to make sandwiches out of.
Q: Once in school how did your day start?
A: Well we started actually with an assembly, which meant we had a prayer and the teacher would have a small short talk something pertaining to the bible and that was the way we started every morning. You could depend on that. At that particular time there wasn’t any separation of church and state. It was all combined in one.
Q: Did you have an American flag in the school and did you to the Pledge of Allegiance?
A: Yes, we did have a flag pole outside and if I remember correctly we did have the Pledge of Allegiance but that was about the extent of it from there on it was just school.
Q: What subjects were taught?
A: There basically it was just the reading, writing and arithmetic. That was about it. There was no social studies or anything of that kind. Just the basics.
Q: Do you remember what your schoolroom looked like?
A: Desks were placed. The teacher desk.
Q: What kind of lighting did you have?
A: Oh, kerosene lamps, that was it. There was no air conditioning. There were no shades at the windows. So, basically you had the light from outside to provide the school with lighting. Of course the kerosene lamps were used just in case of emergency or something like that. Or if something should come up at night and you wanted to meet at school then you used the kerosene lamps.
Q: Would the kerosene lamps be on the desks or would they be on the wall?
A: No, they were hung on the wall. They had them on the wall, but to my knowledge there wasn’t much going on at night. Usually people were pretty tired when they got home and stayed there.
Q: The schoolroom was set up in a traditional fashion with the teacher’s desk?
A: Yes, it just had a plain desk and no backdrop or anything to it. We had these desks the old time desk that the seat would pull up you know and the one in front of you set in this desk and the back of the desk had a place for the next kid to write on. Under the platform was a place to slide your papers and books and stuff like that in there. You carried your own books and you had a book bag that you carried with you. I can remember my mother made some book bags out of different kinds of material and stuff like that but you didn’t have to carry so many books as you do now, so as a result you didn’t have problems with your back and so forth. But like I say I put mine on my pony and I was alright.
Q: How did you ride your pony? Bareback or on a saddle?
A: No, I had a saddle. We also had stalls back of the school for the horses to be put in. Anybody that rode horses. We had two girls that came from down the rescue area that drive a buggy. The two Minga girls, one was named Margaret. I can’t remember her sister’s name. They would drive that buggy and of course when they got there they would unsaddle the horse and put him in the stable. Like I say the parents would usually bring some feed up there for the horses, so forth to use while they were at school. But these three modes of transportation were; the boy with the wagon and these two girls and I with the pony and it were some others that had some other means of transportation. I think some of them their parents brought them to school.
Q: What do you think was the longest distance anybody had to travel? Both distance and time wise?
A: I would say this boy from down Tan Road area. I don’t think they came from much further than that. There was an area of five or six miles and most of them lived within a mile or so of the school. Maybe two miles.
Q: You mention relative subjects meaning reading, writing and arithmetic. Did you also have to do poetry and memorize poems?
A: I don’t remember a whole lot of that no. I think they were more interested in teaching you how to read and write than anything else. Maybe later on you got into more poetry. The kids we had there were you might say, were just out of kindergarten and started first grade.
Q: Did you have any programs such as talent shows or plays?
A: Yes, every now and then they would put on a play and involve the kids in it and what I remember more than anything else was this particular school was a two story school, two rooms upstairs two down. We only used the two downstairs rooms and the upstairs we used for storing junk and books and things of that kind. What I remember it had a porch all the way across the front and I would say the school is maybe thirty or forty feet long. Two or three times during the year the parents would get together and bring their ice cream freezers up there and have an ice cream eating. They would freeze the ice cream, get somebody to bring the ice and they brought the custard and they would freeze the ice cream and have ice cream for all the kids and the families and that happen in the afternoon one specific afternoon during the week. That went on for an average of two or three times a year they would do that. But the parents were more involved and they didn’t expect the teachers to do anything but teach the kids. That was about the extent of our social activity.
Q: Did you ever play any part in one of the plays?
A: Not that I can remember. I might have but I just can’t remember anything in that line.
Q: Do you remember what kind of plays or skits they would have done?
A: No, I can’t that’s a little bit too far back for me.
Q: Did you have chalkboards or blackboards in you classroom?
A: Yes, we had blackboards and chalk and that was it. If someone drew pictures they would put it on the wall. But basically you had blackboards and chalk and that was about it.
Q: You didn’t have any teaching aids on the wall?
A: No, None of those that I can remember.
Q: Now at your desk you would have your own pencils and paper or would you have an individual slate there?
A: We carried our own pencils and paper. They were expected to bring their own material. And of course we had to buy our own books and bring them in. The county or nobody furnished any books. Any of course we didn’t have a library. It was just teaching there everyday. That was it.
Q: Was Mrs. Latimer principal and teacher?
A: Yes, I think she taught seventh grade.
Q: Do you remember the split between the groups? Was it like the first, second and third grade together?
A: I believe it was first, second and third but they would shift from one room. The first two or three grades were in one room. The others were in another room. They would work from one room to the other.
Q: So you had two teachers at that school at any one time that would teach the lower grades.
A: That’s right. Incidentally Mrs. Latimer had been married and her husband had died. She had a son that was my age exactly. We were sworn buddies. She had one heck of a time with us because she couldn’t punish one without punishing the other. I tell you right now she had a rough time bringing us up.
Q: So, what kind of trouble would you guys get into?
A: Well not really too much to tell you the truth. The worse thing that I can remember we had one or two of the guys every now and then that would slip around back of the school and smoke a little bit. If she caught them smoking they had detention for quite a while because she wasn’t putting up with that. So far as any really bad things I can’t think of anything we had discipline problems other than that and that just happened on occasion.
Q: Did Mrs. Latimer ever have to use her paddle?
A: No, I don’t think so. I tell you what they did do. They would get your hand in that ruler. When she hit your hand with the ruler two or three times it got your attention then. Really we didn’t have a whole lot of discipline problems. To tell you the truth if you had a problem you better not take it home. Because if you did you got the second discipline when you got home. And most of the time that was worse than what you got at school. They just didn’t put up with that. Your parents didn’t.
Q: During the time that you were at that school, did you ever have a male teacher?
A: No, they were all female.
Q: Did you have recess?
A: Yes, we had a recess in the morning about ten o’ clock about five or ten minutes recess. Incidentally, the restrooms were these old Johnny houses out back. Boys and girls were separate. You had chance to go there and if you wanted to get some water you could be excused. Of course we had a noon break at lunchtime about thirty or forty-five minutes. You had your lunch. Mostly everybody sat on the front porch and ate their lunch. Some people had a couple of bottles with something to drink in it and something their mother had fixed for them. I don’t remember if you could go back in the school or if you had to stay out of that room until it was time to go back in after lunch, but you had about a thirty or forty-five minute break.
Q: You mention about the little Johnny houses where the boys and girls could go to the bathroom. Of course now young people are use to modern conveniences. Toilet tissue today is a little different from probably what you experienced back then.
A: Sears Roebucks and Montgomery Ward catalog back then. That was about the extent of it. I think they had some newspaper and stuff like that but no toilet tissue.
Q: What type games did you play?
A: Well, basically you had a game called tag where you tag each other and run, then they had a lot of marble playing, shooting marbles, and baseball. I believe we might have had some basketball. I can’t remember that off hand.
Q: Did boys play by themselves? Or was it boys and girls together?
A: Most of the time they played by themselves. I tell you boys at that time were bashful. They didn’t want to be caught round with the girls much no way. Consequently they played to themselves and as a result you played boy’s games and girl’s games. I don’ know what the girls played but I do know we had some little basketballs and baseballs and things of that kind. But you made up your own games yourselves. I think they might have had some basketball goals out in the yard. But that’s about it.
Q: How long was your school day?
A: From nine in the morning until three in the afternoon. That was five days a week. And it was for nine months out of the year.
Q: And the school generally started what month and ended what month?
A: Started, I believe it started in June. I can’t remember right off hand.
Q: Well you would have been out of school during harvest time, right?
A: Oh yeah, definitely. Time for help on the farm. But it went on for nine months. I do know that.
Q: Was there any time during the year when you had off, for like a long holiday?
A: No, you went continuously from the time you started school until you closed.
Q: So you wouldn’t have off like they do now before Christmas until after New Years.
A: No, that’s right. No you didn’t have any time off you went continuously.
Q: Did you have somewhere to put your coats and hats?
A: Yes, there was a real big hall between the two rooms, and there was also plenty of room upstairs if you wanted to hang them up there, but if I remember correctly, there was a whole line of toggles up and down the wall and you could hang up your hats, coats, and things of that kind on those as you went in. Then of course nobody worried about taking anybody else’s it was just unheard of. So as a result they more or less hung their coats, jackets and hats and so forth on those toggles out in the hall and they would pick them up on their way out when they came out.
Q. Do you have any positive memories of your school days, your school and of your teachers?
A. Uh, not really. I do know this that you respected your teachers and there was no back talk. That was a thing that you just didn’t do. If you did you got a whack on the head or on the hand. We had rather strict discipline, but as a whole they were very fair. It didn’t make any difference whether you were a girl or a boy, if you did wrong you got disciplined.
Q. What were some of the nicest things or most favorable things that you remember about your experiences in that small school?
A. Well everybody was friends. We didn’t have such things as outside entertainment to the only thing we had were games that we created for ourselves. There wasn’t any equipment brought in like they use swings and things if that kind.
Q. So really it was the friends and acquaintances that you made that gave you fond memories?
A. One school then was much different than from what it is now. If it got hot you didn’t have air conditioner you just raised the windows. You didn’t ever have electric fans. There wasn’t any electricity. So as a result you just had to sweat it out. The teachers were very fair and they tried to treat everybody like they wanted to be treated. At the same they did not hesitate to discipline you and you better not tell it when you got home.
Q. You had to go to school in all kinds of weather. What kind of weather experiences did you have either going back and forth to school or while you were in school?
A. Well the biggest thing they had was snow. Every now and then on very rare occasions if it snowed or something like that my dad would take me to school in the old model T. If it was pretty deep he would hook up the mule to the cart and carry me to school. But you went to school. You didn’t stay around you went on the school everyday just about.
Q. Are there any additional school experiences you wish to tell us?
A. I know one thing I want to tell you about. Right close to our schools there use to be an old blacksmith shop. What we call a delivery stable. So this guy would come around about twice a year and he’d have eight to ten mules and horses. His name was Peter Campbell. He had a wagon he slept in. These horses and mules he would bring there and he trade horses and mules in the area. He would feed them to get them in shape to take to another locality and sell the off. Ever so often he would come down a couple or three times a year.
Q. He would do that there on the schoolyard?
A. Within 100 yards of the school ground. Where the blacksmith shop was.
Q. Where is that in relationship to the old store that Reynolds Parker had?
A. Actually about 100 yards of it. That was where the Ruritan club is now. The delivery stable was built between where the Ruritan club and the old Carrollton store in a little field right on the left. Of course the Ruritan Club is now built on the land that the school was on at that particular time.
A. I do have a list of a lot of the kinds that went to school here.
Q. Who were some of them?
A. Well, let’s see. The two Minga sisters, then we had a girl named Doris Ming who later married Bill Warren. Her dad was the mail carrier and was for as long as he lived. Then we had William S. Blackwell, that lived there, Frances Bostworthy that lived next door.
Q. Bostworthy is the name of the road the school was located off of?
A. Right, Then we had: Frank and Jane Drive, Lois and Edwin Turner, and Rowland Spady, James Pulley, Craehas and Middleton Richards, they were from down in tan road area. Then we had Joseph and Otis Lankford, myself of course and this boy names Arthur Lee Latimer.
Q. Can you give us some highlights of your life after your school in Carrollton?
A. Actually when I got out of school down there I came to Smithfield and I went to Smithfield School until I quit in the 11th grade. When I left there I went and got married at 17 years old. Her father had a farm and I went to work on the farm. I stayed married for about 7 or 8 years. When I left there I went to work for the James River Bridge system. I started out tying on bumper stickers for advertising. I did that for a while. Then I got a job taking tolls at the tollhouse.
Q. Bill, when you worked for the James River Bridge system most folks may not realize that included what bridges?
A. Three bridges: The James River Bridge, the Chuckatuck Creek and the Nansemond River. Those three bridges were all built at the same time by the same company and were privately owned at that particular time.
Q. So were there tolls for the three bridges?
A. Yeah, Yeah, and then I worked for the …Mr. Captain Finley Johnson was the manager of the James River Bridge System, at that particular time, so he wanted me to learn all about it. So one time after I got out of the toll house he wanted me to come up there and they had some of these three wheeled motorcycle that were owned by the bridge company and they had a boat at that time for painting underneath the bridge and my job, at that particular time, was to carry the paint out there and check on these men to be sure they were working and I’d take the boat out and so many times I thought they were out there floating and painting and they were actually fishing out there, well it wasn’t much you could actually do about it.
Q. Were they catching any fish?
A. Oh yeah, anyway, he transferred me there, to be with the electricians. So I use to drive this pickup truck from one bridge to the other with the head electrician. Incidentally, I’m not going to name him, he was an alcoholic. He drank this Red Fox wine I believe it was. Anyway, in the wintertime, I’d drive the pickup around and he sat over there and drank that wine with the heat on and everything. He’d drink wine and get drunk and I’d get the headache from it. Anyway, we did that for quite a while…and then Mr. Johnson later on, he brought me up to the office and my job was to go down and collect the money at night from the bridges and use their pickup vehicle to do it with…and bring it into the office and count it out and make a deposit slip. Then every morning he and I would take it out to First National Bank in Newport News and deposit it. Well, that went on for quite a while.
Q. When the bridges were built did they have electric lights on right away or did they get put on later?
A: No they had lights. I don’t remember what kind of lights they were but they did have electricity at that time. But the toll houses at that time were on the other end of the James River Bridge was one of them. Originally there was a tollhouse on this end and on the other end. But they never used but just one of them. I worked there for I guess 15-20 years. I left there when the state bought the bridges. I quit and went down the road for about two miles and I built a garage down there. I always wanted to be a mechanic. So after I got it opened I was very fortunate because all the men who worked for the Bridge Company including the supervisor and all, they’d send people down there to help me to get started a hold lot…and they brought their cars out here to work on.
Q. So you opened your mechanical garage business then before or after World War II?
A. 1949. And I kept it opened until ’62-’63. I sold it out then…and since then I’ve just had been operating on a very limited scale. Still working off and on mostly tractors and garden equipment and things like that.
Q. Bill, you became a member of the Board of Supervisors in Isle of Wight as I recall. What made you decide to do that and how long did you serve?
A: Believe it or not, I had no idea of getting on the board. At that particular time there was quite a bit of ill will and disagreement about the ones that were in there…and some of the people down there got after me about running. But I never had been in politics in all my life. Some of those guys down there really went to bat for me. In the meantime, we had three running for that particular office from our district. And I came out with 53% of the hold business. So I served one term over there and it liked to drove me wild. I just got rid of it. I couldn’t please anybody. I said I think I better get out of it. I just served one term.
Q: And when was that Sir, what year was that?
A: ’75 or ’76, somewhere along in there.
Q: For 4 years?
A: Yes. Yes.
Q: Is there anything else you would like to tell us about your life? Have you been a member of Benn’s Church all your life?
A: Yes. That’s the only church I have ever been a member of. I’ve been there all my life and I married in’86. I reckon I’ll stay here. I have been in this community all my life. If you ask anybody over here about me, they know who I am and most likely where I would be located. So I’ve been a fixture around here for quit a while.
Q: Do you have any children?
A: I have two daughters. I have one who lives here up in the Rushmere area…and I have one in Anaheim, California. The one in Anaheim has two boys, one is married and the other is not married yet. That’s all the grandchildren I have.
Q: Well, unless you have something else to tell us we certainly have enjoyed your interview. We thank you for your interview.
A: Thank you very much and I hope people will get something out of it.
Q: I think it will enlighten a lot of people? Thank you very much.