Today is Tuesday August 12,2003 and we’re at Pulaski Baptist Church and we’re interviewing Mrs. Ann Tyler Thornton.
Q: Mrs. Thornton, first of all can you tell me about the area of Isle of Wight you grew up in?
A: A little town called Carrsville, Virginia
Q: Could you give us some landmarks?
A: It is located in between a little place called Colosse and Suffolk, Nansemond County.
Q: Do you have sisters and brothers?
A: Yes, I have one sister, Mary Florine Tyler and I had a foster sister which was Josephine Grant, who is dead.
Q: What elementary school did they attend?
A: Mitchell School.
Q: What school did you attend?
A: Mitchell Elementary School.
Q: Do you recall what years that would be?
A: It was 1949.
Q: What grades were at Mitchell?
A: One through seven.
Q: How many classrooms?
A: Actually one working classroom. We had another room that we went to for the overflow. But basically everybody was in one room.
Q: When you had an overflow, this would be the same grades that would open up the room?
A: No, it was basically like the older children would help the younger kids. So they would send the smaller ones, I was one of the younger ones there. We would go into the other room; I guess when we got restless. I was just five years old so I can hardly remember; but I think what probably happened was that when we got restless and things of that nature, they would send the older children over in the other room to teach us like our ABC’s, numbers, colors, and things of that nature.
Q: Who were your teachers or who was your teacher?
A: I only had one teacher, there was only one teacher at that time, and that was a lady by the name of Mrs. Louvenia Mitchell.
Q: Was she part of the family that started the school? Do you know?
A: I believe that she was the one who started the school because her name was Louvenia Mitchell and the school was called Mitchell Elementary. So I just assume that was her school because it was on her property. So that was my assumption.
Q: Have you heard any other information about who started that school?
A: Basically, until this, I never thought about it that much. Once you all said something about this interview I thought about maybe I should have done some history of that school. I never did, no.
Q: Sometimes we pick information that we didn’t know because a lot of the history is not available in the records because they didn’t bother to get that information. We are picking up some points from people.
A: Now that you ask me, I believe there was a rumor that another teacher that taught there, her name was Mrs. Hart.
Q: Fannie Hart?
A: Yes, Fannie Hart, but I didn’t ever know her. I was just there for one year.
Q: Did you know Mrs. Hart?
A: I knew Mrs. Hart from Georgie Tyler. I didn’t know her before. But once I got to Georgie Tyler, I was told that she had once taught at Mitchell School. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know.
Q: How far did you live from Mitchell School?
A: Maybe seven or eight miles or more.
Q: So your transportation was walking?
A: (laughs)
Q: That’s a long way.
A: I was young so I didn’t mind, I guess. The older kids would pick us up and ride us.
Q: Do you have any interesting memories of those days walking the roads, and experiences you could tell us about?
A: (laughs) Oh, there were a lot of interesting things that happened. Some of the things that happened I guess I should not say. But we were picked on quite a bit from the Caucasian kids that were riding buses and things of that nature. One particular instance I remember, they threw stuff on us and my sister, Josephine… The next day she was waiting for them and when they hung their heads out the window, I think my sister popped one with a bottle and that ended that. Then we had people that would ride along, during that time you didn’t have a lot of cars, so you had buggies and things of that nature, and they would ride real close to you. In one particular instance, I was five I remember, so everybody jumped over the ditch to keep the horse from running over us and I jumped in the ditch because I was too little to jump over. Then I was wrapped up when I got to school because it was a real cold winter day. So I stayed in a blanket the whole day, behind the heater. We had a big potbellied heater and they kept me behind that heater to dry me off, my clothes and everything. That was one thing I remember, jumping in that ditch (laughs).
Q: You said that people who were on the carts rode close to you. Was that an accident?
A: No, they did it intentionally just to see the reaction of the kids. They knew we wouldn’t stand there, so we would run and stuff. They would do a lot of things with the dogs and stuff, make you run. I remember some of those things. A lot of times I remember running, but I can’t remember why we were running, but the older kids would take our books and just tell us to keep up with them, especially, my older sister, she would always tell me to keep up with her.
Q: Were you too small to have any jobs to do when you got to school?
A: No, I didn’t have anything to do.
Q: Do you recall the older children, the kind of things they did?
A: They started the fire, they kept the fire going and things like that. I tried to remember, but at lunchtime the older kids were doing—I don’t exactly remember what. I think maybe they were helping to warm our lunch or something. I remember Mrs. Mitchell’s husband used to come and bring lunch, and I can’t really remember how that went.
Q: Did he bring her lunch?
A: He brought her lunch and she would have something that she shared with everybody. I don’t know if that was a daily thing or not. It was in 1949, I was just five, so that was 55 years ago. (Laughs)
Q: Did you have any little jobs that you had to do before you went to school?
A: No.
Q: With your age …
A: I wasn’t really even supposed to be there, to tell you the truth. (Laughs)
Q: What do you remember about your studies? Do you remember anything in particular?
A: The little book with Spot and Dick and Jane and all of that, I remember that. I remember the mathematics, which was like adding, subtracting. I remember learning times tables. I remember a little bit about history and geography. We had the basic reading, math, English, arithmetic, science. We didn’t have too much science as I recall. We had geography, maybe it was history because they were telling us about things that happened basically a long time ago. Most of the time the seventh graders would teach the first graders. She would put the letters out and they would teach us and she would move on to another class. As the time went on, she taught basically the older ones, and the older ones taught us.
Q: How long was the school day?
A: It seemed like forever. (Laughs) I believe we got out somewhere around three o’clock, and we probably started whenever everybody got there. If I recall, I think we got there around eight o’clock, maybe nine, because we started walking as soon as the day began so we could see. When we got home, it was getting dark, so I would think… (Tape ends, switch to next side)
Q: What do you remember about your lunch time?
A: Just being outside on a nice day, we would be on the grass or whatever. Then you had lots of little like picnic tables, we would eat there. I remember recess, we played, after finishing, we had bag lunches, naturally. No hot lunches unless Mr. Mitchell would bring some stuff --and if it was in wintertime, he would bring hot soup or something like that. Sometimes she had cake. (Laughs)
Q: You all had it good.
A: She lived in the back of the school, so it wasn’t that far. I remember my mom fixed our lunches; we had like baloney sandwiches and stuff like that. I can’t remember drinking anything. (Laughs)
Q: I wanted to ask you about water.
A: Oh they had a well with a pump. I remember that because I remember the older guys had to pump water and they had to prime it. But the little kids weren’t allowed to go to the pump.
Q: Did they bring water in the building?
A: Yes, a big water pail that you dipped the water. I had a dipper. We all drank from the same dipper. (Laughs)
Q: In those days it didn’t make as much difference as it would today.
A: Oh no. We all drank from that same dipper.
Q: Did you have glasses that …
A: All I can remember is that dipper. I think we all drank from that one dipper.
Q: Can you describe the classroom? What did that look like, the inside?
A: It was a large room. I remember she was always facing up front with a desk. I can remember it really good because the first graders sat over here and we had like two rows of desks; then there were second graders; then there were third graders; and over there in a corner were the sixth and seventh graders. The little kids sat in this corner and the older kids were all the way over in that corner. She sat right in the center. If they wanted to work with us, we had to go over there. (Laughs) I remember this bell, because ironically enough, I have the bell. I still have the bell, and I don’t know how it winded up in my possession. But I have the bell that she used to ring. I was intending to bring that bell.
Q: We would certainly like for you to loan the bell to the museum, just temporarily.
A: I was intending to bring that bell. Ok, well I have it, because I won’t let it out of my sight. I have that bell. For the classes before going in and going out.
Q: Did you have an area for your coats, a cloakroom?
A: We had an area on the wall. They had nails in the wall and you would-everybody hung their coats on that wall inside the school. Then as you came in the door, there was like a little hall, some of the coats were in there too. I know when it was raining and you had boots on, they went in the hall as you came in, the wet stuff went in there.
Q: How would you describe the teacher’s desk and the students’?
A: The teacher’s desk wasn’t too much different than what the desks are today, not a whole lot. But our desks, a lot of times you didn’t have anything, it was just a chair. (Laughs) They were different than what we have now. It was like a box type of thing that you sat on and there was like a little top that came across. The other one was like a table and you had a chair and inside of that table was a little desk where you put your books. They ran together like a chair up to a table and you had a little cubbyhole under that. Then we elevated to like a little block thing. But we didn’t have too many of those, we probably got them from the white schools. You know they brought stuff from them all written over and scarred up.
Q: What was written on them?
A: They wrote a lot of stuff on there. They were carved in. So they weren’t new ones, I think we probably got them off the junk yard because all our furniture was really old.
Q: Did Mrs. Mitchell have any teaching aids on the walls? Do you recall anything?
A: I think maybe she made these things. I recall a big A, a little a, and she had little signs taped on the wall. I can tell you what color they were, they were green and the writing was white. I’m thinking she probably made them. All I can remember is ABC and the numbers up to 100 were always there. I can’t remember pictures. I think we probably had pictures… and stuff like that. I think we had presidents’ pictures—things that we had to learn, the presidents, who the president was, our ABC’s. I remember she had a thing that had the times tables because we had to write down our times tables 2, 4, 6, and 8. Because I remember we had to stand up and recite the times tables. That’s what she had. There may have been a little play too. We may have had to do a little play for the different holidays like Thanksgiving.
Q: Was this during the day, or was it an evening activity?
A: I can’t remember, but I can remember learning little parts. But I can’t remember if we did it during the daytime. We probably did because nobody had cars at that time so you would have to walk to the program. I’m not sure. I just remember learning some parts.
Q: Could you tell me about discipline and punishment?
A: Discipline wasn’t what it is now. It was like everybody knew her and you obeyed her. Then we obeyed the older kids. They would tell us stuff not to do and reprimand us and it was just like we did her. When we went out for recess, the older child would watch us. We could not go to the road; there was a playing area we had to stay in. The older kids went to another area, but we had to stay right in front of the door. If we were not in the area, one of the older kids . . . I remember a guy named, Rubin Walden, it was almost like she assigned a kid to a kid. Because I can remember him, he was always the one that was telling me what to do. So I’m thinking maybe he was the one that was assigned to me. (Laughs) I can only remember him reprimanding me and I’m wondering why didn’t my older sister. So maybe he was assigned to me…because whenever I did something, he was always, why are you doing that? I was always looking for his eyes. Whenever I would do something right, I can see him winking and his dimples right now, I can see his face…. because he liked to wink. I can remember because I think I was the youngest kid there because I really wasn’t supposed to be there…. because of my aunt, she started teaching me from the time I was two. So when I got to first grade at Mitchell School, I knew most of the stuff already.
Q: So you had time to look around and remember everything.
A: Right. They were always picking at me, because I was the littlest, teasing. I could always take a tease. I was always mouthy and had a lot to say back. They would mess with me to make me talk and get in trouble. I can remember one day sitting in that corner, they didn’t call it time out then, I can remember sitting in the corner for talking. (Laughs) Yeah, I remember that.
Q: Any other positive memories of school that you haven’t told us about?
A: Oh, I have positive memories. I remember there was a girl named Mammie Gay. She was so sweet and everything. A guy named Otis Walden, I remember them. We used to play hide and seek and all this kind of stuff, the little stuff that you play. I remember playing games; they played what I called big games, horsy games, they were real good memories for me. We had a lot of fun. They weren’t any fights that I can recall. I think that was a pleasant memory because I looked forward to going, looked forward to playing. We had a lot of kids to play with, and I think that was my greatest memory. It didn’t even seem like it was that long to walk. We had so much fun --walking. It was like when we walked home from school, you passed one person’s house and he dropped off and it was like being in a car. You passed the next person’s house and he dropped off. We were the next to last to drop off.
Q: So you had a chance to …
A: So I had a chance to visit with everyone. In the mornings it was the same thing, they waited for you. We would leave home, they would pick us up, and then we would pick up the next group. By the time you got to school, the whole group went together. I don’t recall one person walking alone. I don’t know if that was taught for safety purposes or what. But I can always remember, and I always wondered why we were not walking alone. But it was always the whole group. You left in a group and you dropped each person off and when you came back you were in a group and you dropped each person off. You all sort of jogged my memory because I never thought about some of this stuff before until right now.
Q: I’ve heard quite a few people say that it brought memories.
A: It really did. I never would have thought about it anymore, how significant that was, this was our foundation. I never looked at it that way.
Q: Negative memories?
A: Negative memories – The negative memory I have was the day they said we were going to leave that school and go to another and ride the bus. We were scared because we were always walking in a group; some of the kids were going to be going their separate ways. The group was not going to be together again. They were doing the division line so some of the ones that were with us wouldn’t be with us anymore. I was scared that Mrs. Mitchell wouldn’t be with us anymore. They told us she wasn’t qualified to go to the other school and that was a sad a memory that she wasn’t going to continue with us.
The first year I was at Georgie Tyler, I think that was my saddest memory that I didn’t see Mrs. Mitchell. But as I got older, I went to New Jersey, and she moved to New Jersey and I’ll never forget her address, that address was 9 New Street, East Orange, New Jersey. I always remember. I went by to see her. Actually, she tried to come to my high school graduation, but she was sick. When I graduated from college, she tried to come, but she was really sick at that time. She sent me a hundred dollar bill for my college graduation. I remember the card; I think I may have it. She said, “You’ve gone further than any of my students I may have had at the one room school; and don’t stop there.” I remember that was what she said.
Q: That would be nice if you have it.
A: I think I may have it.
Q: We would like to have a copy of it.
A: I’m going to try to see if I can’t find it. I think my mother still has my report card.
Q: We’d like to have a copy of that.
A: I think she still has it because she has everything. I’m going to check.
Q: You might think about seeing what you have; either make a copy of it or at some point you might let us borrow it.
A: Oh yes, no problem. I don’t know what would happen to it if anything happened to me, because it wouldn’t be important to my kids. But I think I may have that card that she sent me.
Q: We will be working on this; we don’t have to open until 2007. Look in your attic or something and by all means let us know.
A: All right, I sure will. I have my report card and the card she sent me at graduation. I know I have the bell because I take it to my school all the time and we play games and they ring the bell. I didn’t take it last year because the kids are getting different and I don’t want it destroyed. But I have the bell that she used to ring- to let us know we needed to speed it up if we were walking and hadn’t gotten there. (Laughs) She would ring that bell.
Q: Are there are any other school or childhood memories that you would like to tell us about?
A: From Mitchell School?
Q: It doesn’t have to be it could be something from earlier from your move to Windsor or it could be Mitchell.
A: Another thing that happened when I moved from Mitchell School to Georgie Tyler is, I told you I was five, so when I got to Georgie Tyler, there was a conflict about me being in second grade. They put me back to first grade. So I had to repeat first grade because they said I was not legally in the school. That was like devastating to me because I did nothing for a whole year….because all of the work I had done it before; so it was not difficult for me. There was another girl named Louise, the two of us were five, and they put both of us back because at the time I was just turning six. When I got there, they said there was no way I could be in second grade even though my mom tried to fight it. But at that time it was like she didn’t have a car to drive to go to fight it like she should have. She just had to let it go since I was so young. I just went back to first grade again. That was a bad memory. The other bad memory was that I didn’t bring Mrs. Mitchell with me and I had to adjust to a larger school and more students. But I think I did make the transition pretty good.
Q: Well if they hadn’t done that, you wouldn’t have wound up in my class.
A: (Laughs) I would have been in another class, that’s true. They told me that I could make it up, but you know how they say stuff under the rug. They never let me make it up. Each time I asked about it, I was just a child, and I was told, “Go sit down.” (Laughs)
Q: Give us a short autobiographical sketch of the highlights of your life, after high school, what did you do then, up to this point?
A: After Georgie Tyler, I entered Norfolk State University, and there I pursued a degree in physical education and health. At that time, I was on the Norfolk State Drill Team for three years and I was on the basketball team, I ran track. I met my husband there; he was a track star, Joe Thornton. From that union we had two sons, Reginald and Joseph, Jr. From Norfolk State, I went to, they were starting a program called Model City in Norfolk, Virginia, and I landed a job with them and became a supervisor with them. I ran that program for two years. I went from there to Eastern Virginia Medical School, and Norfolk Health Department where I was a special health consultant. I left there to pursue a degree in guidance and counseling from Old Dominion University. From Old Dominion University I went to teach in Virginia Beach in 1972, and I’ve been there as a middle school teacher since that time. I’m going to retire next year. I’ve been there 32 years, and then I pursued another degree in administration from George Washington University; and then I pursued my PhD. from George Washington University, but I bowed out because it was time for my kids to go to school. So I sent my oldest son to Hampton University where he got his degree in Computer Science. I sent my youngest son to Virginia Union University where he got his degree in Business Administration. From there is history. (Laughs) That brought me up to where I am now and I work very much in my church and in the community. I’m now holding president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in the Tidewater area, and district president in this area. That’s an organization that was started by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and I’m very closely in contact with Dr. King’s family and whatever time. I just got back from a workshop in Memphis, Tennessee; we do something there every year, and we’re getting ready to go to DC, so I work much with the Civil Rights Movement now. So that’s my job right now, and working in my church, I work in my church as a deacon…and that’s it. That’s the end of story.
Q: Anything else you want to add?
A: (laughs) I haven’t lost my sense of humor. I’m still a kid that didn’t grow up. I think that this is a great thing that you all are doing and it has brought back a lot of memories. It is something for our children to let them see where we came from and maybe to motivate them to where they are going. It is always my motto with them, I don’t ask them what they want to be, I ask them what do they want to do. I know if you do something, that will bring about you -being something. So, I always like to throw that in. This is not a lost generation; it is just the fact that our kids are, I guess you could say like a Kodak camera, a lack of exposure. We expose them through pictures, but if we don’t expose them, we’re going to get a blank. We need to do more exposing them to situations. If they know from where they came, they will have a general idea of where they need to go. I think it is good and I thank you all for doing it.
Q: Thank you, Mrs. Thornton… thank you very much.