Interview with Ms. Clarice White
October 25, 2003
Interviewed by Sandra M. Lowe
Miss White received her early training of grades 1-5 at the Lodge Hall on the Little Zion Church grounds. She went through the remaining lower grades and high school, college, and began teaching at Carrollton Elementary in 1945.
Q: First of all can we get a little background on what area of Isle of Wight you grew up in?
A: Well I grew up in the county area called Livy Neck.
Q: For someone who isn’t familiar with the county, where would that be?
A: You come to Smithfield Va. at the light the area of Old Stage Highway, but the school I went to at the time is now called Blount’s Corner Road. The building has been torn down but the old church is still there. Someone else has purchased it now.
Q: Did you have sisters and brothers that attended the same school?
A: Yes
Q: What was your elementary school situation? What school did you go to and where was it?
A: As I told you before first I went to the Lodge Hall on the Little Zion Baptist Church ground. I went there from the first to the fifth grade. And after I finished the fifth grade we were sent to Isle of Wight County Training school. And I went there from the sixth through the eleventh. I graduated from Isle of Wight County Training School in 1941.
Q: From high school could you tell us where you went after that and yours days leading into teaching?
A: After I finished Isle of Wight County training school, September of 1941, I enrolled in St. Paul College in Lawrenceville, VA. I graduated from St. Paul College in Lawrenceville VA. May 1945. After that I had my first job working in Carrollton Elementary in Carrollton Va. Teaching grades 1-3.
Q: How long were you at Carrollton and where did you go after that?
A: Well I was in Carrollton maybe about 16 years, approximately 16 years. After that before elementary school in our area was consolidated. Which was Trinity, Bridget, Lawn and Carrollton which formed Hardy elementary school.
Q: You went to Hardy as a teacher there?
A: Yeah, I transferred from Carrollton to Hardy.
Q: When you were in your first teaching positions what would you say was some things that stand out in your memory about your first couple of years?
A: Well first, it would be the relationship I had with the parents in the community, Seem to be a close related parent and they was very dedicated to the school and support of the teacher due to the condition in which we lived and survived.
Q: And could you tell us more about the condition of the building and the room and the situation you were under?
A: It was a two-room school and we had potbelly heaters and outdoor laboratory. Plus a pump water. Later you would get someone to come in the morning to make the fire and get the fire started. We had a very active PTA, mothers and fathers were involved were interested in getting better schooling conditions for their children.
Q: Would you say that the parents were able to provide you with a lot of materials and things that the school system didn’t give you at that time?
A: No they did the best they can but a lot of material we had to buy it ourselves.
Q: In your first couple of years, how far were you from the schools that you were teaching in?
A: I guess about five miles I guess.
Q: Did you travel by car or how did you get back and forth at that time?
A: Yeah commute. Bus and car.
Q: What do you recall about the teaching subjects that you worked with and the grades that you had? What textbooks did you work with? How did you operate your classroom? You had 3 grades in one class?
A: That’s right.
Q: How did you manage to
A: You had to make a schedule and I had to schedule. You had to have periods for reading, a period for math and language arts and I had to work each group in during that period. If I had an hour for reading I had to divide that up into 3 groups to get the 3 grades in and sometimes you had to have some individual groups on the side to help bring those ones that didn’t come to grasp with it.
Q: What did your room look like at that time? How would describe it
A: The blackboards were worn. I took some sturdy, strong cardboard and made some bulletin boards out of. (laughter) It looked right good I guess at that time for a country school (more laughter) Now a days we’ll say it was presentable and welcome and warmth.
Q: You said you were at Carrollton for about how many years?
A: I’d say about 16, I guess.
Q: Does anything else stand out in your mind about those 16 years at Carrollton? Cause that really is more in line with the area that we’re working with?
A: Well I see some of the children that started in Carrollton when I was in the eighth grade and world of work. Well all I can say that it was a very cooperative community and seems there was a streak of love for the school. Cause I was a young person went into that community at a young age and seems the older people kind of put their arms around me and helped me to go forward.
Q: You left there and went to Hardy when it opened up, how do you feel there were differences in the Carrollton school and then working at Hardy?
A: The only difference, the first thing I’d say was the environment, the building itself. A brand new building at that time everything was convenient you know. You had indoor bath, running water, and cafeteria, just everything.
Q: You remained at Hardy until?
A: 1987
Q: Is that when you retired?
A: That’s right.
Q: What year did Hardy open up? Do you recall?
A: I think it was 63, I believe, 62 or 63. September of 63 or 62.
Q: You moved right over, all those four schools were closed?
A: We all had to go-------------------------------------------
Q: I want to go back and spend a little time some time on you telling us about your elementary school days. When you were at the church building on the grounds on the, what was the name of the church?
A: Little Zion.
Q: How was that set up? Did you have one room or were you in ________?
A: One room. It was one room. In a way it was one room it had stairs to put the largest grade there, but when the population grew larger they hired another teacher and that wasn’t so long I’m sure not too many years.
Q: That was after you were there?
A: No, No. It was during some of the time I was there. But I never was able to get up there. At that time it was going from 1-7. Then they broke it now, when I got to the fifth grade the class had dwindled down to only about two of us some of the children had dropped out and springtime people went to truck farming across the bay and they took their children out of school. And there was just the two of us left so the teacher told us the next year we would need to go to the Isle of Wight training school.
Q: When you started out there was one teacher?
A: All I remember is one teacher.
Q: And then they had two at one point? And then they closed up?
A: At one point I remember one other teacher coming there.
Q: Do you remember the name?
A: Her name was Simpson but I don’t know what she did, She was living in Newport News, I’m not sure what her first name was. My first grade teacher was Mrs. Muriel Hall, and then after her was Mrs. Eunice Jones. You know her anywhere. She was the last teacher I had at the church.
Q: That’s where you were for your elementary days primarily until sixth grade?
A: Until I got to the sixth grade.
Q: Do you recall anything about the how that building became, was used as a school or who may have been instrumental in working on that or starting it?
A: I can’t name no special person I thing all the parents at that time were interested in the children having somewhere to learn, to study. So I think the county paid for the teacher and far as the wood and all that, I think the parents had to get that far as I can remember.
Q: In your first year or two what years are we talking about?
A: My first group, maybe about 31, 1931.
Q: Do you know when they closed; you said they closed it basically around the time you had gotten in the sixth grade?
A: No! No! Some children were left there. The first through the fifth were left there they were still going. I think they closed around forty I reckon, I can’t just pinpoint it. I do remember my little brother coming to my class and I was in the senior class that year, and I finished, 41. It must have been around forty and he was over there then. I guess they closed it up.
Q: When you were in elementary school going through those first grades how far did you live from the church?
A: Hollering distance. Walking distance.
Q: So you didn’t have far to walk?
A: No, I didn’t have anywhere to go.
Q: Did you have chores that you did before you went to school or after school?
A: Sure. We would pump some water for washing. Make up the beds and all those things like that and wash dishes. Come afternoon, I would always get water for washing my clothes cause at the time electricity wasn’t out in our area. We would bring some water to the house and after that your head would go to the books and study your lessons.
Q: What do you remember about your lessons and the way your school day went?
A: You mean when I was in lower grades?
Q: Those grades one through three or one through four?
A: One through four, at that time you only had one reader and you had to do a basic reader for that year but now children have, at least when I left they had a reader to finish and a number two reader to go to the next one like that on up. But I don’t know, by levels, level one, level two, level three but back then you repeat. .
Go back over the same book, if you ever finished it.
Q: Do you remember your first grade reader?
A: I know it was baby, baby but I don’t know the name of it.
Q: Do you remember any of your other textbooks for your first five grades?
A: I don’t remember the names; I know it was math, geography.
Q: What do you remember about your subjects, anything about the subjects you liked or didn’t like?
A: I really liked math best of all. All the daylong math has been my favorite. At that time I think we had hygiene, but now it’s health and geography and history of Virginia but now everything is social studies book. I think the fourth grade still has the history of Virginia. Some of it I can’t recall now.
Q: How long was the school day when you were in elementary school?
A: 9 to 3.
Q: Do you remember anything about your lunch period? What you did or the types or did you bring lunch from home?
A: When I went to the church, the school I could just run home but when I went to Isle of Wight Training School most of the time I carried lunch. Sometime, they didn’t have lunches like they have; you could buy sandwiches from the homemaking department. Sometime I bought sandwiches but most of the time I carried lunch.
Q: The rooms at the hall that you were in, how would you describe it? What do you remember being in the room?
A: Potbelly stove and some seats. Some of them were double seats and then some was single.
Q: Wood was this? Metal?
A: The double ones, looked like someone made them. Two could sit on the seat and the desk was for two.
Q: How many students would be in your class?
A: You mean when I was back then? I guess about ten or twelve.
Q: At that time there would be one teacher teaching 1-7?
A: 1-6 is what you actually had.
Q: Did you have a chalkboard in there?
A: No, chalkboard.
Q: Any school supplies that you recall?
A: Nothing but the chalk and eraser that’s all.
Q: Was there a cloakroom or did you hang your coats on the wall?
A: A little entrance room to the room and you could hang your coats there.
Q: The building, was it big enough that you could have had more than two rooms downstairs?
A: No, no
Q: What was discipline like when you were in elementary school?
A: It wasn’t too bad. In every group you have some naughty children, then you have some parents that would cooperate and then you can find a few that won’t. . Some don’t believe what the teacher said they did. Some parents don’t believe at that time like the same thing goes on today. So discipline wasn’t too bad I’d say.
Q: You have been through the years when you were in school and then all the way up through 1987 with Hardy so you would describe your elementary school days as the discipline, you didn’t need to use a lot of discipline, I would imagine during that time?
A: No, the teacher, just a lady teacher, nobody but her. The disciple wasn’t as much a problem as it is today.
Q: Do you have some positive memories of your elementary school days? What would be some things that you liked about your elementary school days?
A: I went to school; children could go outside and play by themselves in my elementary school days, later years the teacher always had to be present out with them. We didn’t create problems children go out and play and when the bell rang they got in line and come on back in. You could have programs, could have school closing programs in elementary school.
Q: Do you have any fond memories of some of your classmates and maybe some of those programs that you had?
A: My classmates gone on before. Some of them could sing, some of the teachers tried to have operas. Our pianist has come out to help, our church pianist, she use to come out and help do them.
Q: Do you have any negative memories of the days when you were in school or the days when you were teaching?
A: Not in school. I never was able to ride a public school bus. I always had to when I left the church school my parents had to always pay someone to take us to school. Summers, that my uncle had a bus and he could take the children and let them crowd the bus. Then a man from Rushmere, Mr. Johnson had a bus and he could pick us up but we still had to pay. I’ve never been on a public school bus.
Q: As a student?
A: No, as a student, I’ve been on it to take children on field trips that’s all, but not as a student and the other children the other race, the white children ride right by my gate and the bus would be bouncing because there wasn’t enough children to hold it down. And we would be walking with an arm full of books going back and forward. I had to walk down to the corner where the store (you know where the store was?) and I live on the road where the old church, so we had to walk that distance just to catch the bus and the white folks that lived above us there children go on the bus and that bus be going by and we would say look at that bus bouncing up and down. They couldn’t even hold it down. That’s one of the things I will always remember.
Q: Are there any other school experiences you would like to tell us about? When you were going to school?
A: Over to the school the seventh and sixth grade there was a new experience, more children, just a new environment. Then when we got to the eighth grade it was still a new environment because the children from other rural schools came for high school and the ones that we hold in contact with now in this school are children I met in the eighth grade.
Q: Is there anything else that stands out in your mind about the school experiences when you were teaching?
A: Well I seem to have had a good relationship with most all of them, all the teachers, because I guess I was kind of one of the older ones, maybe not in age, but experience.
Q: You had giving us in the beginning a bit of biography of you from your elementary days to the days of teaching, would you like to tell us about your retirement years, anything about your family that you would like to add so that we would have a better idea of your life?
A: No
Q: Church, anything?
A: I’m a member of Little Zion Baptist Church and I’m a trustee of Little Zion
Baptist Church. A member of the adult Sunday School Class. I worked with the missionary.
Q: Anything else you’d like to add about your life or school or anything at all?
A: No. My family _______
Q. Can you tell us about your hobbies?
A: My hobbies is reading, and solving crossword puzzles. Try to keep in contact with the sick members of our area. I’m leader of our lodge right now.
Q: I did want to go back to when you were in elementary school and ask you one question, did you have any decorations on the wall or did you have things up when you were in elementary?
A: Oh, yeah. When I was in elementary. When I was a teacher I tried to have pictures on the wall. Health pictures. Seasonal pictures. Thanksgiving pictures. I tried to display some of the children’s work on the board. The board was hard and you hurt your fingers pushing those tacks in. (laughing)
Q: Did you have anything up on the wall when you were in elementary school?
A: We had a few pictures up. I think they had some pictures on the wall.
Q: Is there anything else you would like to add? I’ve come to the end of the questions that I have for you, but if there is anything else you’d like to put in this would be a good time. Did you want to mention any of the teachers that you worked with or any memories of things that you remember?
A: The first teacher I worked with in Carrollton, was Mrs. Day. She married Marie’s husband’s father, she was from Portsmouth. She was the first teacher I worked with. Then when she retired Mrs. Lucy P. Blount became the principal in Carrollton. When we consolidated to Hardy she became the principal of Hardy so I worked with quite a few at Hardy. Mrs. Thelma Wells, Roland Dixon, Ruth Fields, Charles Pleasant, Mrs. Revis, Mrs. Wrenn, Virginia Wrenn, Geraldine Holloway, Ms. Mattie Jordan, Ms. Willie Parker, Elsie Godwin, Mrs. Kelly, Mrs. Francis Brown, Doris Key, Mrs. Jerrine Yeoman, Miss Jackie Lee, J.P. Perry, Ms. Matthews, she’s still at Hardy now.
Q: Quite a long list?
A: Yeah a long list. Then Ms. King, Ms. Everett, the white ones they first came and Ms. Gwaltney. They were the three white ones who came and integrated. They came from Smithfield High School. Then on and on is added and going and coming.
Q: I did have another question I was wondering, do you remember anything about the history of any of the other older schools during the time of 1950 or so, how any of the buildings were started?
A: No, no. Most of them had church building. Anybody from Rushmere been here.?
Q: Yes from Rushmere, I’ve had a couple of people.
A; Probably they could tell you about it.
Q: You don’t recall anything?
A: No, I don’t really know, I figured they just started like ours did. The church and the lodge had this building and the county paid the teacher.
Q: Besides paying for the teacher is that all they did?
A: I know Lawnes had one and Trinity. They probably gave some coal or something. That’s what I can remember them doing.
Q: Maybe supplied some coal and wood?
A: I think the PTA gave the wood. I don’t think they supplied no wood. I think they let men come around…I remember the men and I think the WPA or county men digging the outside toilets. I remember now.
Q. Alright, Miss White, I want to thank you for coming in and letting us bombard you with questions and I really do appreciate it. Thank you.