Q: Today is Wednesday, April 2nd and we are at Emmanuel Baptist Church and this is our first interview of Mr. Larnie Winnegan….and Mr. Winnegan, tell us your age.
A: I am 81 years of age.
Q: And what is your date of birth?
A: My date of birth, June the 6th, 1921. I mean, June the 6th, the 6th month, which is June, 26th date, the year 1921.
Q: And you grew up in Isle of Wight County?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Could you tell us something about the area where you grew up?
A: In Isle of Wight County, where I grew up was like fifteen miles from Smithfield, Virginia in a place called Comet. Ninety percent of the people lived there were farmers.
Q: And did you have sisters and brothers?
A: Yes, I had seven sisters and two brothers.
Q: What schools did they attend?
A: They attend Trinity School and my two younger sisters and I attend Isle of Wight County Training School and I took courses at Hampton Institute at night.
Q: When you were at Trinity, what grades were taught there?
A: They had a beginner’s class, and then, after that year, you started from one through seven.
Q: And how many classrooms were at Trinity?
A: It was two classrooms but the year I started, they had added onto another room and made three classrooms.
Q: So there were three teachers there at that time? What grades did you attend there?
A: I began with the primary to the seventh.
Q: Do you know what years that would have been?
A: Yes, I started in the year of 1929 and graduated in 1937 from Trinity School.
Q: Do you recall any of your teachers?
A: Yes, I had three. From the primary to the second grade, I had Miss Long, second and third grade I had Miss Elsie Godwin, and fifth through seventh I had Mr. W.A. Quarels.
Q: Do you have any information or know of anything about when the school started or, well, you said that they changed their number of rooms from two to three. Do you know anything about when the school first opened up or whether it was part of the church or public schools?
A: I don’t know when it opened up but the church and school always worked together.
Q: How did you get to school?
A: I was living very near the school so I walked. We didn’t have any public transportation.
Q: How close was that?
A: I had a quarter of a mile.
Q: Did you have any jobs at home that had to be done before you could go to school?
A: Yes, we did. We had to feed the animals, I had to make sure we had enough wood, and if we had time, sometimes we did a small amount of farm work.
Q: Once you got to school, were there jobs for the boys and girls?
A: Yes, we all had jobs. The boys had more jobs than the girls because they had to do the cleaning in the afternoon and once a month- once a week we had to mop the floor with oil-like stuff and then we had to go ahead and get wood and start the fires.
Q: Do you know what the oil was supposed to do for the floor?
A: Yeah, it kept them clean and killed germs.
Q: How did your day start when you arrived at school, after you did the chores and then what was done next?
A: And then our class began with a prayer and then, I think, once a week we had an assembly where all classes met in one room and then we recited the Pledge of Allegiance and the principal give instructions.
Q: Do you remember the subjects that you had in your-- in school?
A: Yes, I do. We had, we had a lot of subjects: we had reading, writing, arithmetic, history, hygiene…that’s the most that we had.
Q: Do you recall any specific experiences that went along with any of your classes, or subject materials, or your favorite subject? Anything to do with the classes?
A: Yes, well during the classes, we had very strict teachers and they made sure that everybody learned as near as possible, and uh, we had things that they put on the drawing board. And we had our homework to do at night. They were very concerned about each student.
Q: Okay, how long did the school day last? What time did it start and end?
A: It started at nine and ended around three-thirty.
Q: And your school year? When did the school year start and end?
A: Oh, at that time it was different, like we only had seven months. It started in September and ended the last of March.
Q: Did you go all day? Well, you said you went till three-thirty, three or three-thirty. Was the short school year, do you think that was because of the farming?
A: Yes, it were, because uh, most ‘specially the boys, out at that time, we also lost time in the fall of the year for harvestin’ your crops and in the spring of the year preparing to farm. So we didn’t have the chance to go the full seven months but we made up for it.
Q: What was your lunch period like?
A: Well, our lunch period, everybody brought their lunch from home. And we always had sandwiches, and sometimes we ate in the classroom or you could go outside and eat, doesn’t matter.
Q: How long do you think the lunch period was?
A: It was between half an hour and forty-five minutes.
Q: So you had combination lunch and recess. Did you have any other recess?
A: Yes, in the morning around ten o’clock, we had fifteen minutes to go outside and get fresh air. And, you know, to do whatever you could in fifteen minutes.
Q: What do you recall about your recess period, the games or activities that you took place with?
A: Yes, in the lunch hour, we had in the Summer/Spring time and in the Fall we played baseball. The girls, they had--like jumping rope. Sometimes we had relay running to see who could win. We did the best we could with not too much equipment.
Q: Do you have any other experiences or remembrances about that period of time; the games and so forth, anything else you wanted to add to that?
A: Well, we played against other schools, in baseball season.
Q: Were those games during the school week or were they on Saturday or after school?
A: They was during the school week; we had a ball game, we would leave school earlier.
Q: How did you get from one school to the next?
A: Well, one of the, one of the parents had a truck and he would, you know, would bring it in and everybody would ride in it. All the parents, they worked together.
Q: How was your building--- building’s heat situation taken care of?
A: Well, um, the parents would buy wood, but the boys would have to sometimes, to go outside by the near woods outside, and would have to find like pine that had been fallen down and was turnin’ to like light wood. And we would get that to bring it back to school so we could start the fire with.
Q: Where was your water supply?
A: We had a pump.
Q: Was that inside or out?
A: It was outside.
Q: Did you go to the pump individually for water, or did you fill up a container and bring that in?
A: We had, we had containers, I think, whatever it was, we had water inside the school, but most of us went to the pump. We had drinking cups out there and on your lunch hour __________.
Q: Now, the inside of the building, how would you describe the building itself?
A: Well, the inside of the building was very uh, very clean, and they were particular, you know, about where you sit and what you do and uh, we had, had to be very particular about what you do, or where you sat, and it was kept very clean. We wasn’t allowed to put any paper or anything on the floor. You had to clean up after yourself.
Q: What did the classroom look like?
A: Well, it was just a regular room. It had individual deskses for the children to sit in. Uh, the teachers had their desk. At that time we was using an ink, an ink pen, each one of the deskses had an ink well there so you could put your ink in and so forth.
Q: That would have been for some of the higher grades or were all the rooms the same?
A: Well, all the rooms were similar, but I think they used the ink in, in the uh, from the third grade on up to the seventh.
Q: How would you describe the students’ desks and the teacher’s desk area?
A: Well, the teacher’s desk had an ordinary wooden desk, and uh, the students’ deskses was made out of wood also.
Q: Did you have anything else in the room besides the students’ desks, the teacher’s desk, and perhaps a chalkboard or blackboard?
A: We had a chalkboard and uh, each room had a, a heater in there, so we could keep warm.
Q: Was that the stove type, the pot-bellied stove type or a different type of heater?
A: Well, you could call it a pot-bellied stove.
Q: Wood-burning?
A: Yes.
Q: Was there anything else in your rooms that your teachers --have any, pictures or anything on the walls? Or were there other, anything, were any teaching supplies provided, that you know of?
A: Well, the only thing that they provided was like um, chalk to use on the blackboard. But each individual had to supply their own books, papers, and pencils.
Q: What uh, how was your room lit, as far as the lighting in there?
A: During the daytime we didn’t need any lighting, but anything was takin’ place in the afternoon we had lanterns that we used.
Q: Where were your books kept; and your coats and hats?
A: Well, we had a coatroom to keep your coat and hat in and your books was kept under this drawer under your desk.
Q: Did you have any other area where books were kept?
A: No, we didn’t.
Q: No shelves anywhere?
A: No.
Q: How would you describe discipline in your classroom?
A: Well, the teachers were very strict. Um, if you disobeyed or doing something that you shouldn’t do, sometimes you would have to stay in a corner. Sometimes they would make you write different words, disobedient or something, on the blackboard maybe 25 or 30 times, or keep you back for short time after school.
Q: Were there any other incidences or experiences that you recall having to do with your school days? Or, going to school, classmates that you had, anything in that line?
A: Well, in those days, they were much friendlier than they are today because everybody played together and worked together and we had to do, like, different jobs after we go from school and before we’d go to school, we didn’t have too much time to get into mischief. We kept very busy every day.
Q: What is your opinion of the schooling that you received during that period?
A: Well, I think it was very good because you had to at least be prepared to take your examinations and your tests and kids, when they were in school, they didn’t have any time to play around. It was strictly to learn.
Q: Can you recall any other childhood memories dealing with when you were growing up that wouldn’t necessarily have had to happen at school?
A: Yes, there’s a lot of things I recall in those days. The farmers, they didn’t have that much money. That was just, that was in the time that the Depression was on and everything was very, very degrading as far as people having money and so forth like that. But we were lucky because by living on a farm, my father was able to grow our own food. Only thing we had to buy was food and clothing, and whatever you had, you took care of it, ‘cause it had to last a long time.
Q: After attending school, elementary and the training school, what was some of your jobs and other experiences you had in the county?
A: Well, in the county, after I, after I, my training school, that was in 1940, that’s when the War started and most people, most boys especially, had were, they had to go and do defense jobs. So I started working at the Newport News Shipyard and I never went back to the farm anymore.
Q: Do you have any regrets about not going, not becoming a farmer at some point?
A: No, I don’t, I’m very satisfied with, with my life from the opportunities that we had---because while I was working in the Shipyard, I went to Hampton Institute. I took night courses. My teacher there was Mr. Boothe and when the War was over, I moved up north and I became my own business manager and everything, so I’m perfectly satisfied.
Q: Alright. You told us some information about your, your life, are there any other highlights you’d like to tell us about that happened in your lifetime?
A: Well, there’s one thing that happened after I left elementary school to go into Isle of Wight County Training School. We had to walk five miles each way, so we would leave home like, six or six-thirty in the morning, same as people who worked, as grown adults was goin’ to work…. and it was kinda, it was kinda hard to understand why we had to walk so far and there were school buses that were used by Caucasian peoples there. That were riding by the same places we were, and they were ridin’ and we were walkin’ and things like that were hard to understand. But anyway, that didn’t discourage me. I made it anyway. And back in 1938, when I started going to school, most African-American males, if they finished elementary school, it was very good for them because they had to do farm jobs, didn’t too many go to high school. I happened to be one of the lucky ones that went in those days.
Q: Is there anything else you would like to add to your interview or any people that you recall from your early school days, or teachers, anything at all that you’d like to add?
A: Well, for my teachers, Mr. W.A. Quarels, he was a very smart school teacher, he was the principal at Trinity School and Mrs. Godwin and Miss Long, they were very good teachers, also, so we had a good opportunity to learn, if you wanted to. And most kids wanted to learn because we all had work to do when we left school, so there was no time to waste. Everybody’s time was counted. And it paid off in the long run because most all of us were successful. And in those days, school kids, they were never locked up or in trouble, they were never cited for drugs or drunkenness or nothin’ like that, because if one student, even though he wasn’t going to school, if a younger person was doin’ something that wasn’t right, even the older boys or mens would chastise you and make you behave yourself. Everybody had to walk a chalk line and as you got older, it really paid off. So I think that I was successful. I’m satisfied.
Q: Very good. Mr. Winnegan, did you have anything else you’d like to add?
A: No, I guess that’ll be good enough (chuckles).
Q: Do you happen to have any information about any of the other schools that were in the county or anyone that may not have been related to the Trinity School?
A: I recall a school called Godwin School that some people from that district came to my Sunday school, and sometimes we’d talk about it, but I think this Godwin School was a one-room school. We went there to play baseball one time, but some of my Sunday school teachers, one of them taught at Godwin School. That’s about all I know about other schools.
Q: Well, if you have nothing else to add, then I really appreciate your coming out today and giving us just a tip of your remembrances of the school days here in Isle of Wight, and I really want to thank you for participating in our project. Thank you very much.
A: Thank you and it’s a pleasure to participate and to give you what information that I have.
Q: Thank you.